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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU why do women have more than 2 children

300 replies

Gin96 · 09/12/2019 12:45

2 children, Now we have the benifit cap? I see so many women struggling after having baby number 3 after the cut off date in 2017. I don’t agree with the cap but it is what it is. Men should pay towards their children but i’m afraid a lot don’t and it’s left on the shoulders of women. Why do women put themselves in this vulnerable position?

OP posts:
Baguetteaboutit · 09/12/2019 17:27

For clarity, I did say that businesses should pay their own way and then you asked how that would work without job losses and I suggested that, in that case, we should give the money direct to businesses and then everyone would at least be clear about the state of play and workers would have the dignity and freedom to collect their whole wage without the whole world weighing in on how they should spend them.

Or rather, that's what I would have said if my thumbs and brain would talk to one another while I'm ranting.

SeditionSue · 09/12/2019 17:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SeditionSue · 09/12/2019 17:30

This reply has been deleted

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Baguetteaboutit · 09/12/2019 17:34

It would be great Grin although it would make it harder for government and their target voters to tinker with nudge policies if they didn't have benefit recipients jump through their own fair wage top-up hoops.

JenniferM1989 · 09/12/2019 17:42

I've just wondered about this reading this thread. Say for example there's a family and they had two kids that are say 8 and 6. Then in late 2017, they had another child. Then they had another in 2019. Then the father runs off or worse, dies. Is that woman not going to get any help for the children born in late 2017 and 2019 because of the 2 child rule from April 2017? Even if her partner dies or leaves her in the shit? 😮

SeditionSue · 09/12/2019 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dontalltalkatonce · 09/12/2019 17:44

Is that woman not going to get any help for the children born in late 2017 and 2019 because of the 2 child rule from April 2017? Even if her partner dies or leaves her in the shit? 😮

That is correct, yes. If the couple were married she could get bereavement allowance for 18 months.

Original poster
Gin96 · 09/12/2019 17:45

I do think all men should have the snip after having 2 children so they can’t go round pregnating loads of different women, Hee hee 😜 that will never happen though. I have only ever had 2 children as that is all I could cope with and yes I always had in the back of my mind if I was on my own would I cope, yes with 2 I could. I find it very hard to understand why women carry on having children and they aren’t coping, financially and emotionally. Also now adult children can’t afford to move out, 2 adult children I can cope with, 3,4 or 5 no. Why would you put extra stress into your life?

OP posts:
SeditionSue · 09/12/2019 17:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Baguetteaboutit · 09/12/2019 17:49

I don't think we should be basing public policy based on what you personally cope with Gin.

OrangeZog · 09/12/2019 17:51

I do think all men should have the snip after having 2 children

Says a stupid, naive person who has never experienced a stillbirth or neonatal death.

Baguetteaboutit · 09/12/2019 17:56

You know, if you really wanted to nudge families to limit their children, without being accused of dictatorial proclivities, you could do it by limiting each family to one single domestic washing machines of 3kg. That would be my personal tipping point.

Venger · 09/12/2019 17:58

£2000 a month.

I've used RightMove, the council website, and calculators on utility websites to work out the figures.

Rent - £650 a month for a four bed property
Council tax - £126
Gas and Electricity - £120
Water - £100
TV license - £10
Phone and internet - £30 (classed as essential by DWP for job searches)
Food and household goods - £780 (based on £20 per person, per week)

That's £1816 before taking into account any transport costs, clothing and shoes, school supplies, OTC medications and sanitary products, any debt repayments, birthdays, after school clubs, unexpected expenses.

£2000 sounds like shitloads on paper but when it's for nine people it works out as approximately £50 per person per week, it is not a life of luxury no matter how you try and spin it.

JenniferM1989 · 09/12/2019 18:01

I've only got one child and don't claim benefits so not clued up on the two child rule. Could this be why so many children are living in poverty? There was a family unit, some of the children were born after April 2017 and the parent is now a single parent either through a relationship breakdown or death and receiving nothing but £50 a month child benefit for the children born after April 2017.. so all the children and the single parent suffer as a result like a ripple effect as there's just not enough money, even if they work because they get no top up for the children born after April 2017. You can't raise a child on £50 a month, it would barely feed them. What do you do in that situation? The partner doesn't even need to die or leave, they could just lose their job or have their hours reduced and this will happen! So essentially, in order to have more than 2 children, we all need to look into the future and predict there will be no separation, no death, no job loss and no variation in wage.. what a morbid and sad way to live

Emmapeeler1 · 09/12/2019 18:04

Ah yes, it’s the fault of women. Not men, or austerity measures, or companies which get away with not paying tax.

lifeisgoodagain · 09/12/2019 18:06

It's a tricky one, there's women who (what they thought at least) were in loving relationships, higher income earners and their h's did the dirty on them, there's women who are widowed ... but there also the 5 kids by 5 different men scenario which most people don't find acceptable (you can prevent pregnancy, long term contraception is free on the nhs). I have no issues (other than environmental) with large families if you can afford them. I stopped at 2 because of money, I would be tempted to have another now I'm in another relationship but I'm too old!

irishglaze · 09/12/2019 18:08

I wish we could like responses, the ‘boris is that you’ killed me😂 I couldn’t give a toss how many children a woman has unless they’re being neglected or abused

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 09/12/2019 18:30

I agree with the cap but still think it’s too generous. The onus should be on the adults choosing to have a child to support them not other tax payers.

People don’t seem to think about what could happen in future or believe their relationship is infallible etc. No future planning seems to factor for many.

SeditionSue · 09/12/2019 18:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Poetryinaction · 09/12/2019 18:41

I can afford 3. Tax credits, dh or not. We had 3 because siblings are fantastic.

notnowmaybelater · 09/12/2019 18:43

Why, I wonder, is it children per woman that Gin is focused on and not children per man?

What percentage of women fail to support all their children properly? As compared to what percentage of men?

Gin96 who gives a flying fuck what you can cope with except you? Your 17:45 post is so utterly self absorbed it's impossible to take anything you post seriously? You think because you're a bit incompetent nobody should be allowed to do anything you would have struggled with? You think because your children have failed to launch everyone else's will be equally poorly equipped for life outside the nest?

Baguetteaboutit · 09/12/2019 18:45

No future planning seems to factor for many

Let's talk about "no future planning" but from a societal perspective. Children being raised in poverty costs society a FORTUNE. The money that you save by with-holding money from children for some ideological bent will be paid ten fold down the line, through illness caused by malnutrition in childhood, mental health services because of the strain of being raised in a poor household, for disengagement in school because you lack the resources to participate fully because of the mental load of being raised in a poor household, because of your lost economic potential because of all of the above and the lack of tax receipts that follows. That's really shit future financial planning in my book.

Drabarni · 09/12/2019 18:46

They wouldn't need the snip after two children.
Where women are to blame is getting with soiled goods, men who already have a family, and having more kids with this man.
If there was a law to make men pay for their responsibilities, or go to jail, there would be fewer absent fathers Grin
Don't think Boris (von trapp family) is likely to bring in a law too soon.

CactusAndCacti · 09/12/2019 18:47

The 2 child cap really isn't stopping people having more children.

Anyway I have 3, but can I just check where I am on the evil scale? We claim CTC, CB and DLA, but I work full time in a job that requires a degree (around band 5/6 in NHS terms) and DH is the SAHP (on account of the need for DLA). Just for reference.

Bbq1 · 09/12/2019 18:49

In the article I read yesterday about the couple in Liverpool (and I'm from Liverpool too)the couple were totally irresponsible. They are both early 20's, she'd first got pregnant at 15 and they have 7 kids aged 1-8 including TWO sets of twins. Then they're crying because they can't afford to look after them?! Why not stop after the first 1 or 3 until you can afford to have more. You don't just continue getting pregnant if you can't support the children that you already have. So irresponsible but like somebody said it's the poor children who suffer and it's not their fault. I feel sorry for them.