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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In laws don't think we're properly married. AIBU to stop making any effort.

234 replies

Blerdebler · 08/12/2019 19:19

DH is a very lapsed Catholic. I am not. We live in NI and had a non religious wedding ceremony five years ago. We have DC together and I am pregnant. When we announced our engagement, my inlaws did tell DH that they hoped we'd be getting married in church, DH said no, that wouldn't be happening, and there was no further comment.

We were round at the in laws today for lunch and they were talking about a cousin who is getting divorced. MIL then said "well it doesn't count anyway, they didn't get married in church, Cousin can always do it the proper way if she wants". There was a bit of an awkward silence, and DH said "mum, you do realise what you've just said?" MIL looked awkward then began to bluster, saying "well I did tell you before you got married, I asked the priest and he says it doesn't count". DH was really cross and said "I think you'll find it counts in law regardless of what the fucking priest says"

We left soon after. DH is fuming, I'm just hurt really. What have they really thought my role is all this time?

I do quite a bit for pils - nice presents, making sure they see the DC, just always tried to make the effort to maintain a good relationship with them. AIBU to stop making the effort, seeing as I'm not really their sons wife in their eyes?

OP posts:
TatianaLarina · 09/12/2019 12:25

It’s fairly common for religious people to pick and choose the bits they sign up to.

You wouldn’t have to be a very devout and observant catholic to think that a non church wedding didn’t count.

Anyway she’s relying on what the priest told her. He’s not likely to say that non church weddings are valid or he’d be out of a job!

Logjam · 09/12/2019 12:28

Once a catholic aways a catholic the belief sticks like glue. My Dad despite being a lapsed Catholic/ atheist was still insisting I had my kids christened - I refused of course!

TatianaLarina · 09/12/2019 12:29

Exactly - I think you can’t really account for which beliefs stick and which don’t.

TatianaLarina · 09/12/2019 12:30

I’ve got a catholic friend she doesn’t have to go to mass but she did have to get married in church. There’s no real rhym of reason for it.

TatianaLarina · 09/12/2019 12:30

*rhyme or reason obviously.

chamenanged · 09/12/2019 12:41

I’ve got a catholic friend she doesn’t have to go to mass but she did have to get married in church.

GrinGrinGrinGrinGrinGrin

ThinkIamflyingundertheradar · 09/12/2019 12:42

Your in laws believe that a ‘true’ marriage is one where the couples are married in a Catholic church. To them it’s more than a lifelong commitment to one another, it’s a religious sacrament blessed by God. You can’t expect them to change their beliefs anymore than they can expect you to change yours. She was a bit tactless to say what she did but I think you and your DH are over reacting.

I’m a Catholic too so being married in church was important to me. My gay brother is (surprise) no longer a Catholic so it wasn’t important to him and he didn’t marry his husband in church. We believe different things but that doesn't come between us. I love his husband, he’s an important part of our family, the fact that they believe different things to me doesn’t change that.

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2019 12:45

“ I’ve got a catholic friend she doesn’t have to go to mass but she did have to get married in church”
I don’t think you’ve got that quite right.

chamenanged · 09/12/2019 12:48

Also, my NI Catholic MIL is very observant, goes to mass every day etc, but she wouldn't say this and doesn't think it because she isn't a dinosaur. We're not married (and her son, my baptised Catholic DP, is divorced) and she wouldn't 'slip up' and imply our relationship/union/family is somehow lesser, because she doesn't think it. Some people in her church would definitely choose to have those beliefs; she chooses not to, even though she was brought up with them like everyone else she knew. Same as she isn't a pro-lifer and it wouldn't be excusable if she was.

chamenanged · 09/12/2019 12:49

Oh, I think she does, Bertrand. We know loads of those type of Catholics!

HeckyPeck · 09/12/2019 12:55

Your in laws believe that a ‘true’ marriage is one where the couples are married in a Catholic church. To them it’s more than a lifelong commitment to one another, it’s a religious sacrament blessed by God. You can’t expect them to change their beliefs anymore than they can expect you to change yours. She was a bit tactless to say what she did but I think you and your DH are over reacting.

I agree. I think the fact hat it’s come as a surprise to you shows that she has been treating you as family so I would not think any further on it OP.

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2019 13:02

@chamenanged - agreed. I thought she meant according to the church...

chamenanged · 09/12/2019 13:10

I suspect she'll also have to send her children to Catholic school. Shortly prior to which she will suddenly have to go to mass after all Grin

Logjam · 09/12/2019 13:14

Some of it is a worry about what the neighbours will think - we got married abroad - sparing my mother's embarrassment - she didn't ask me too but I knew she was relieved.

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2019 13:16

@chamenanged - how very dare you! Grin

turkeyontheplate · 09/12/2019 13:16

@babypossum, that's so sad and a shoddy way for them to behave. DH and I are both escaped Catholics and as militantly atheist as they come - but we both went to our 17yo DS's baptism (entirely his own informed choice, I don't like it but it's HIS life) because family relationships are more important than socio-political views. We love our son and were there to support him in his choice, although there were some bare-knuckle negotiations beforehand about praying/singing hymns/verbal responses during the ceremony.

Aderyn19 · 09/12/2019 14:55

It seems though that the ILs haven't been treating the OP entirely kindly for all these years and she's been on the receiving end of a few barbed comments, this being the latest. Being told by your mil that she doesn't consider your marriage to be real (with the implication that her son could do it again properly if things don't work out) is going to be hurtful.

SolitaryGrape · 09/12/2019 14:59

I’ve got a catholic friend she doesn’t have to go to mass but she did have to get married in church

That's pretty standard for huge numbers of cultural Catholics. I know very few Irish Catholics under the age of 70 who go to mass regularly, but an overwhelming proportion of the population still baptise their children and have them do first communion and confirmation, marry in church and have Catholic funerals.

billy1966 · 09/12/2019 15:41

OP, irrespective of how strongly, or not they believe in their religion, to tell your DIL that her marriage doesn't count is extremely rude.

It's hardly surprising you have been hurt by it.

Your MIL sounds tactless and it also sounds as if she has gotten away with being very pass remarkable on several occasions.

She thinks she can say whatever she likes and you'll just take it.

Either change that, challenge her, be a lot less accommodating of your PIL's, or suck it up and just accept this is way things are.

Good luck.💐

SolitaryGrape · 09/12/2019 16:00

OP, irrespective of how strongly, or not they believe in their religion, to tell your DIL that her marriage doesn't count is extremely rude.

But MIL is not claiming the OP's marriage is invalid in law. She was talking about a different person's civil wedding, not the OP's, someone who was in the process of divorcing. The MIL was merely pointing out that this person would be able to get married in church if she married again, because her first marriage wasn't a Catholic church wedding -- in that specific sense (which obviously to the MIL is crucial) it 'didn't count'. She doesn't have to try to get it annulled before she marries again.

The OP and her DH aren't practising Catholics, therefore they do not conceive of marriage in sacramental terms, but in legal ones.

I mean, obviously it's mildly annoying to have your parents/ILs think of your marriage as a lesser affair because it wasn't performed in accordance with their church as absolutely, both my parents and ILs do, though they are far more upset by DS's non-baptised status but it's not a big deal. It slipped out accidentally when talking about someone else.

It doesn't mean they do not think of the OP as their DIL, any more than my parents and ILs don't think of my unbaptised DS as their beloved grandchild.

banivani · 09/12/2019 16:05

Actually, she may not be quite right about you not being "properly" married, because I have heard of people who have converted and become Catholic later in life who have had their marriages blessed and recognised as sacramental. It's not the church bit that's most important, it's the intention of the spouses (among this is both have to want kids/accept kids as part of the deal but there's a few other things, like voluntarily entering into marriage etc.).

Most Catholics can hold two views of marriage in their head at the same time, but if your religion means you see marriage as a holy act, providing it fulfils certain criteria, then other marriages aren't "proper" marriages in the sense that they're not the holy acts.

Personally I'd wager they don't see you as "less than" in any way. But I'd also wager that they'd love you to convert.

Don't take it too harshly but at the same time don't be somebody you're not around them and say something if you feel they're sniping at you.

SolitaryGrape · 09/12/2019 16:07

Personally I'd wager they don't see you as "less than" in any way. But I'd also wager that they'd love you to convert.

In NI? I honestly doubt that. Grin

banivani · 09/12/2019 16:08

Ah now, all Catholics secretly love a conversion. We can't help it. ;)

Trooperslaneagain · 09/12/2019 16:18

Born and bred there and moved away (not too far) and still getting asked by my otherwise usually lovely Aunties "so love when are you getting your wee blessing"

Me: Ach not again Auntie X.

Auntie X (there's about 10 of them and I've never planned a "wee blessing" - we got married in the registry office when the City Hall was being done up). It was a lovely, small ceremony with a big party after.

DH gets the blame (though he had nada to do with it) - he's effectively protestant but doesn't really know what he is and I'm an atheist Catholic. We're married 10 years, have a child, on our third house and together since 1995. MIL is religious but didn't mutter a word.

I told them at the time I didn't believe in God and wasn't going to stand up in front of everyone I loved and tell lies. The all choked on their Sutter Home Rosé.

*Totally outed myself if any of of my cousins are on here!

SolitaryGrape · 09/12/2019 16:23

Ah now, all Catholics secretly love a conversion. We can't help it. ;)

Honestly, even when I was at my most devout, I thought the majority of converts I met were mildly lunatic. They were so perky and keen, and said the responses at Mass very loudly and clearly, rather than doing a restrained, semi-audible mutter two beats in front of the priest. Grin

he's effectively protestant but doesn't really know what he is and I'm an atheist Catholic

Glad to see there are still Protestant atheists and Catholics atheists. Grin

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