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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In laws don't think we're properly married. AIBU to stop making any effort.

234 replies

Blerdebler · 08/12/2019 19:19

DH is a very lapsed Catholic. I am not. We live in NI and had a non religious wedding ceremony five years ago. We have DC together and I am pregnant. When we announced our engagement, my inlaws did tell DH that they hoped we'd be getting married in church, DH said no, that wouldn't be happening, and there was no further comment.

We were round at the in laws today for lunch and they were talking about a cousin who is getting divorced. MIL then said "well it doesn't count anyway, they didn't get married in church, Cousin can always do it the proper way if she wants". There was a bit of an awkward silence, and DH said "mum, you do realise what you've just said?" MIL looked awkward then began to bluster, saying "well I did tell you before you got married, I asked the priest and he says it doesn't count". DH was really cross and said "I think you'll find it counts in law regardless of what the fucking priest says"

We left soon after. DH is fuming, I'm just hurt really. What have they really thought my role is all this time?

I do quite a bit for pils - nice presents, making sure they see the DC, just always tried to make the effort to maintain a good relationship with them. AIBU to stop making the effort, seeing as I'm not really their sons wife in their eyes?

OP posts:
CustomerCervixDepartment · 08/12/2019 23:30

Absolutely do not do labour for those people, no gift buying or making your kids endure them, or letting their hateful drivel go ‘over your head’, they’re your husbands relatives and they’re relics, he can facilitate their gifts and inflict contact on your kids. Stay out of it. How much clearer can they be?

I’m from where you are, sadly was raised catholic, now a staunch atheist and proudly married in a civil ceremony that was about us, not some fuckin nonsense. Do not pander to the bigots who keep that place stuck in the dark ages. Wise up.

ElluesPichulobu · 08/12/2019 23:46

if they are generally kind, loving and friendly then let it go.

what she considers "proper marriage" is different from what you have. you have a legal and binding commitment to your DH which is completely valid and valuable obviously but which can - if at some point in the future your DH & you find the relationship breaks beyond fixing (which hopefully it won't) then you have a legal and valid way to terminate the arrangement. in her eyes a catholic church marriage is a different thing. it is not a legal arrangement but a religious sacrament and the commitment can never be broken by anything other than death. call it "hyper-married" maybe. in that worldview a divorce from a catholic marriage is a huge tragedy, the despoilment of a sacrament. it is not surprising that the end of a civil non-religious marriage is seen as less bad.

if she treats you as anything less than dh's wife, or your children as in any way inferior to "proper" grandchildren then yes do not darken her door. but otherwise don't worry, and keep on being part of each other's family.

BertrandRussell · 08/12/2019 23:58

How can your dh not know that you’re not married in the eyes of the church?

YouSawThePlans · 09/12/2019 00:01

Good question Bertrand . I don't know any Irish Catholic family that doesn't know the difference between a religious ceremony and a civil one. They're fairly common topics of conversation.

pallisers · 09/12/2019 00:17

How can your dh not know that you’re not married in the eyes of the church?

he does. It is just that in most catholic families (and mine is Irish catholic), we don't actually consider people married in a registry office as less married than those who did it in a catholic church. I can well see how the dh found it astonishing that his mother - even if by accident - told him that his marriage wasn't really a marriage. That really isn't what happens in many catholic families where people don't marry in a catholic church. They still think of them as married - maybe not married in the catholic sense but still married. I can completely understand why the dh would be upset by this.

OP, if it were me and I liked my MIL generally I would probably raise it with her over a cup of tea sometime - like just say to her "I know that wasn't how you meant it to come out and I know you don't think we are married in the eyes of the church but I feel part of your family and I always thought you saw me as DH's wife - is that right or am I getting it wrong?"

I'd do this rather than withdrawing from your in laws.

Nomorechickens · 09/12/2019 00:17

Wait till you have DCs and don't have them baptised and your MiL is wailing and crying real tears because they will go to limbo instead of heaven if they die...

sarahC40 · 09/12/2019 07:30

Funny how things are viewed in different geographical areas - your pils sound bizarre to me. I come from a very liberal catholic background. Married my agnostic husband (christened cofe, but never been in a church since) in a Catholic Church, where my priest had never actually married two catholics - he wasn’t new.

Only sticking point that I worried about was the bringing children up in faith as I didn’t want to ask my husband to make that promise, but the forms said: if that causes a problem in the marriage, the marriage comes first. No one had to promise anything they didn’t want to and that was 20 years ago.

SolitaryGrape · 09/12/2019 07:49

But OP, you say you live in NI, but haven’t said whether you’re Protestant. That remains an issue for some people, regardless of what kind of wedding you had.

And both DH and I are from devoutly Catholic backgrounds. We had a registry office lunchtime quickie and certainly neither set of parents would view us as ‘properly’ married. Marriage is primarily a sacrament for them, not a legality. I don’t resent it — it’s just a clash of worldviews.

differentnameforthis · 09/12/2019 08:11

How can saying that your son's marriage "doesn't count" not be malicious.

It's fucking awful that she dismisses her son's marriage in this way, and the excuses people are making for her are equally so.

Allmyarseandpeggymartin · 09/12/2019 08:15

@ differentnameforthis totally agree. It’s disrespectful, would she have said the same if you had been married in a mosque or a synagogue.

heartsonacake · 09/12/2019 08:16

It doesn’t matter what the law says to her; she will never think of you as properly and truly married.

There’s nothing you can do to change that, so you just have to live with it unfortunately.

KenDodd · 09/12/2019 08:21

So what if they don't think you're married, why do you even care about this completely non issue?

Nonnymum · 09/12/2019 08:21

As long as your relationship is generally OK and she accepts you and your children I would leave it. I agree it's upsetting and annoying but it is her faith. She obviously believes it and nothing you or your DH says will change that.

Bluntness100 · 09/12/2019 08:25

I think unless you're a strict catholic it's hard to understand the views here. As a pp said, in the eyes of god, according to thr catholic religion you're not married, and the eyes of god trumps law. According to the catholic teachings you're legally married but you're not In the eyes of god.

It's not about you, its not about your role etc,it's not about your husband, it's about their religion and Beliefs.

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2019 08:25

“ It doesn’t matter what the law says to her; she will never think of you as properly and truly married.”

Of course she won’t. So long as she doesn’t treat you any differently because of it, why does it matter?

saraclara · 09/12/2019 08:26

Don't let people here wind you up. There is nothing personal to you here. They have overcome the practicalities of what their religious beliefs have inculcated in them. They have accepted their sons' decisions without kicking off. They have accepted you and their other son's partner and baby. But deep down they have a belief which hides there. It slipped out when talking about someone else. That's all.

What matters is what Bertrand said. Are they decent people otherwise? Falling out or behaving more negatively towards people who will always be fundamental to your family life over something like this, would be a mistake. Those encouraging you to do so do not have to live with the consequences. They just enjoy negativity and drama from behind their keyboard.

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2019 08:33

I’m not married. I know this was a source of great sadness to my late fil. He worried about his son and his grandchildren because he believed genuinely that they were in a state of sin. And he occasionally said something about it. Why wouldn't he? He believed they were in danger. If I had grandchildren who were unvaccinated I would feel I had to say something.

Logjam · 09/12/2019 08:41

Is this more a political issue? The whole getting married in the Catholic Church meaning that you'd promise to bring your kids up Catholic...is that what concerns her? Her comments were rude and unnecessary however true she felt they were. If some of my relatives made the same comments about my marriage I would laugh and ask why I should give a shit about what the church say - my disaffection for the Church is well known. My English Mil, on our first meeting shared with me that she feared I was going to divorce dh and take our kids back to NI with me and she'd never see them again - it was a weird thing to tell me, we live nowhere near her, so have managed to maintain a friendly relationship.

BlouseAndSkirt · 09/12/2019 08:45

Your DH and you knew / know then to be religious: this is about negotiating and accepting different beliefs.

I assume they attended your secular wedding and took part with good grace. You don’t mention any hostile behaviour from them.

They may have been hurt that their Ds didn’t get marred in church, but have not held it against you.

You have no right to control others’ beliefs.

Just carry in as before and don’t create an issue.

SolitaryGrape · 09/12/2019 08:48

@Bertrand, yy, same for my parents and ILs — I know they all worry about DS’s unbaptised state in particular. They all grew up with a belief in limbo (though it was never official Catholic doctrine and was specifically disavowed in the 1950s), and my mother (born 1946) remembers her father crying as he went to bury a stillborn brother of hers in unconsecrated ground, because unbaptised babies were excluded from cemeteries. He was still talking about it decades later on his deathbed.

They believe DS is in danger, too. In general they respect that DH and I think differently, but things slip out from time to time. I don’t get excited about it.

custardbear · 09/12/2019 09:02

Just say 'oh yes that's what controlling arseholes think - never mind, they're all wrong it's all about a commitment to each other not to god'
Or such like 😈
I fucking HATE people who hide behind religion, god, ministers etc just to be controlling and put people down - if you're Christian then prove it by being nice and Christian - not an arsehole

phoenixrosehere · 09/12/2019 09:21

You have no right to control others’ beliefs.

Um.. how is she doing that? Her mil said something obviously hurtful to them and from other posts this isn’t the first time she has said something negative about OP.

Mil could have chosen not to be a gossip and kept her opinion to herself on something that isn’t really her business in the first place.

She stepped her foot in it and instead of stating what she meant in a better manner she decided to be defensive likely because it is still an issue for her as are other things about OP. I wouldn’t be surprised if she blames OP for them not getting married where she wanted.

Yes, people are allowed to have beliefs and we can choose how we react to them, but it doesn’t stop others from being hurt by them.

YouSawThePlans · 09/12/2019 09:38

MIL wasn't talking about OP's marriage. MIL was talking about church teachings in relation to the cousin's divorce and possible re-marriage.

Attheendofmytether12345 · 09/12/2019 09:40

Talk about religious intolerance!
Your MIL is Catholic, and the Catholic church's teachings say that you are not married. You may think this is ridiculous. It sounds like MIL has put aside her beliefs and accepted you and her DS have chosen to do things differently. You seem to be basically saying that unless MIL stops believing in her religion (of which the not being married teaching is a part) then you will stop making an effort. Asking her to choose between her religion and her DIL, DS and DGC is awful.

ArgumentativeAardvaark · 09/12/2019 10:29

Are you from NI yourself OP? If so, is your family Protestant? (my understanding from what you say is that you are an atheist).

And what about the cousin- both catholic families but just didn’t get married in church, or two different religions in the family backgrounds?

I’m just trying to work out if this is specifically a Catholic/Protestant thing going on here.