To feel awful I’ve broken my kids heart?!

[TotalRecall]

The good old Santa debate.

I love the magic of Santa. I loved it when I was a child. My kids love it. My youngest especially REALLY loves Santa. He writes letters, talks to the Elves, regales me with stories about all the times he “heard Santa filling his stocking and pretended to be asleep” 😂 I could go on..

I have no recollection of being traumatised when I found out Santa wasn’t real. My eldest wasn’t traumatised in the slightest, and even joined in on making it magical for her brother etc.

So, 10 year old came into my room this morning and flat out asked me if Santa is real, because all his friends had told him it’s your parents, blah blah. He asked me to just tell him the truth please... so I did. He’s 10, I kinda assumed he really knew deep down, and he’s at an age where I don’t really want him to be made fun of for believing.

He was GUTTED. Like honestly gutted. Was really angry at me for lying to him, asked about the 27492025 incidences over the years where he had written letters or left milk and cookies or left things for the elves to take to Santa.. etc etc
He was actually devastated.

I feel awful! I don’t know any child who has had such a strong reaction to being told the truth so never really imagined that he would. I actually feel like I’ve ruined his childhood by doing the whole Santa thing in the first place!

Should I have told him the truth years ago?!
I guess on the bright side he said I don’t have to do stockings anymore...

[TotalRecall]

He’s still sulking. What is an appropriate amount of time to wait before telling him to get on with it?

I actually think it’s mostly embarrassment. He’s think back over the 372014 letter he wrote to him and the daily notes to the elves. I thought it was totally cute and brought him much joy at the time but I never really stopped to think he may feel like a bit of an idiot when he finally found out. I assumed he would just laugh it off like every other kid I’ve ever met..

He is my youngest so he doesn’t need to help keep the magic for any other siblings. I said we will still do stockings and Christmas will still be magical, but he was very meh about it.

I am comforted that he’s not the only kid to have this reaction though! Sorry to all the PP’s who’s kids were also very upset! It’s a bit of a shit moment isn’t it!

[Bluerussian]

Creepster Wed 04-Dec-19 21:57:18
On the other hand, OP, you may want to learn a lesson from your child's distress and in future ignore the people who advocate lying to children. There are always a few.

Let them know early on that you are all having fun playing pretend, just like in the story books.
........
Spot on Creepster. Exactly what I believe we should do with our children.

[Longfacenow]

How long does it take you to get over a lie by a parent? For me, ages! I feel really hurt/ let down and I take a while to be able to see why they might have lied....and I'm an adult!

[TotalRecall]

I guess I never really saw it as a lie as a kid! Just something fun my parents did for me, and made my early childhood christmases fun and exciting.

Lesson learned! Not all kids are the same! 😳

[Longfacenow]

Yes I was thinking about what it means to your kid right now, not to you or me when we were kids... I'm sure he'll be OK. He might just look twice at you for a while knowing how well you can fib!

[mathanxiety]

Has he been penning daily notes to the elves and multiple letters to Santa even up to this point, @TotalRecall?

At age 10, I feel that is a little worrying if so.

DS has been on and off tears all day. He keeps telling me he’s “dumb” and feels worthless.

He is very academically smart, though very sensitive and lacks a few basic social skills.

To be very honest, I would be a little concerned here. What sort of social skills does he seem to be lacking?

Does he feel he doesn't fit in in school?

Does he perceive a difference between him and his peers on the social level? On the level of 'worldly wisdom'?
Does he understand jokes? Body language?

[TotalRecall]

Yes he did the elf notes daily up until yesterday. Wasn’t overly worrying to me tbh.

His lack of social skills are things like, he literally doesn’t care if he fits in, he will quite happily tell his friends he has no interest in playing their games or taking turns, he can be quite blunt and rude sometimes, but not in a malicious way I don’t think. He can be quite sulky. As a people pleaser with anxiety myself this is quite horrifying and embarrassing to me.

He does get jokes and has a lot of friends despite his lack of tact. His school reports have basically said “class clown” every single year of his schooling.

[ElluesPichulobu]

I still believe in Santa. obviously. well I am Santa. how can I not believe in myself?

yes it's true I'm not a fat old man in red with dubious H&S working practices.

Santa is very very real because there are billions of Santas.

Santa is what you become when you realise that there is more joy in giving than receiving gifts. Santa is the spirit of human generosity and selflessness. and that is real.

I suggest reading Terry Pratchetts "hogfather" with him over the next few weeks. towards the end there is a brilliant passage where it is explained that learning how to believe in things that you know deep down don't really exist is an important survival skill for being human. we practice on little things like the hogfather (santa) and the tooth fairy while we're children so that when we're adults we have the capacity to believe in really complex things that don't really exist unless a lot of people believe in them. eg justice/the rule of law. Mercy. Democracy.

none of these things are really true but the world is a better place is we believe in them.

[MimiCaeger]

This is fantastic
Santa is very very real because there are billions of Santas.

Santa is what you become when you realise that there is more joy in giving than receiving gifts. Santa is the spirit of human generosity and selflessness. and that is real.

I suggest reading Terry Pratchetts "hogfather" with him over the next few weeks. towards the end there is a brilliant passage where it is explained that learning how to believe in things that you know deep down don't really exist is an important survival skill for being human. we practice on little things like the hogfather (santa) and the tooth fairy while we're children so that when we're adults we have the capacity to believe in really complex things that don't really exist unless a lot of people believe in them. eg justice/the rule of law. Mercy. Democracy.

none of these things are really true but the world is a better place is we believe in them.

[nachthexe]

I had to tell my 13yo that the tooth fairy wasn’t real. Her last baby tooth had fallen out, and I couldn’t leave it any longer. She cried.
She’s now a third year neuroscience student and fully planning on -lying- / creating magic for any children she is lucky enough to have.
Honestly op, he will survive.

[mathanxiety]

I would be concerned that he himself can be sensitive yet he is blunt with others, and disruptive in class though presumably he has been told that his behaviour has an impact on others in class.

What sort of interventions have been tried to deal with the class clown thing?

Have you been concerned about the 'class clown' description over many years? The 'class clown' is often expressing something by means of inappropriate behaviour - anxiety or insecurity - and this behaviour can be a sign of a deficit in taking on board social cues.

'Bluntness' with peers and class clown behaviour have in common a lack of concern for the impact of words and behaviour on others. There is taking a joke too far here, and the lack of a filter.

Is he one of the oldest in his class just because of a cutoff date / early Autumn birthday or was he held back in preschool or one of the early years?
You say he is NT - has the question of attention deficit or ASD come up before and has that been assessed?
Why is he calling himself 'dumb'?
Where is the thought that he is 'worthless' coming from?
Does he feel or have an inkling that he has a low level of social competence?

What does he tend to sulk about? How long do sulks last? What are the features of his sulking behaviour? How does a sulk end?

I would ask his teacher for a conversation, if I were you, and I would consider asking for professional help - persistent class clown behaviour has to be addressed. It attracts negative behaviour from teachers, and a reputation for that will precede him and cause him problems.

He may well be trying to find a footing among his peers by persisting in class clown behaviour. It's possible that in his early school career this behaviour afforded him a certain amount of popularity among his classmates and was merely seen as playfulness that didn't necessarily attract too much negative attention from teachers. In the early years of formal education, playful boys tend to be viewed positively by their peers but by age 9-10 teachers tend to make it clear that such behaviour is viewed negatively, and the kid who is a law abiding citizen of the school can edge out the playful kid in the popularity stakes. Girls really shine in the classroom in later childhood for this reason. By age 10 the puzzled class clown can't understand why the atmosphere in the classroom is turning frostier by the month - he may notice that the social landscape is changing but he can't figure out his place in it. Meanwhile, he has friends, and the behaviour hasn't alienated them yet, so he hasn't experienced the full consequence of not changing his tack to suit the shifting wind. He is aware of undercurrents though.

It sounds to me as if your DS has got a little 'stuck' in his approach to the social environment, and could use some help. I would be concerned that he is quite an anxious child underneath it all, maybe insecure, and hasn't gone beyond his behavioural comfort zone, or grown in his response to frustrations. It would be a concern for me that he sulks. Bluntness not so much in and of itself as long as it wasn't hurtful. But sulking and being sensitive when he can 'dish it' to others (not co-operating, maybe hampering a game in doing so) and seemingly not notice the effect he has is a concern. Certainly in tandem with continued class clown behaviour, the lack of concern for social cues would bother me.

The devotion that was well above normal levels to the Santa business would also be a concern. Cognitively, he should have figured out that there would be practical difficulties associated with a Christmas Eve circumnavigation of the globe using flying reindeer, and a sleigh full of pressies sufficing for billions of children, some of whom do not have chimneys. From an emotional standpoint, he was writing daily letters that were never answered. What was he getting out of this experience?

I wonder does he see others as real, three dimensional people? Is it hard for him to put himself in others' shoes? Can he accept someone else's perspective?

I would be concerned that he is a bit rigid in his responses to people and situations. He doesn't seem to adapt to fit the needs of his environment or people in it (keeping on plugging away at the letters regardless of lack of feedback and also regardless of what observed reality must have been telling him about the Santa setup is an example of not connecting dots).

A good many children believe in SC to age 10 and even beyond. But daily letters to the elves takes this to another level entirely.

[GreySheep]

@ElluesPichulobu

I still believe in Santa. obviously. well I am Santa. how can I not believe in myself?

yes it's true I'm not a fat old man in red with dubious H&S working practices.

Santa is very very real because there are billions of Santas.

Santa is what you become when you realise that there is more joy in giving than receiving gifts. Santa is the spirit of human generosity and selflessness. and that is real.

I suggest reading Terry Pratchetts "hogfather" with him over the next few weeks. towards the end there is a brilliant passage where it is explained that learning how to believe in things that you know deep down don't really exist is an important survival skill for being human. we practice on little things like the hogfather (santa) and the tooth fairy while we're children so that when we're adults we have the capacity to believe in really complex things that don't really exist unless a lot of people believe in them. eg justice/the rule of law. Mercy. Democracy.

none of these things are really true but the world is a better place is we believe in them.

This. Absolutely.

[TotalRecall]

He is definitely NT. I, nor any of his teachers have ever had any concern about him. I have never had a teacher request a meeting with me, not one person in his life has ever expressed any concern that he may be on the spectrum or any other development disorders.

The teacher meeting request box on every school report is always ticked ‘no’.

He was not held back, he’s in the appropriate year level for his age. He is academically smart and on an ILP, working a year ahead the rest of his class.

He’s just a little weird.

[CareOfPunts]

Am I the only one who feels really, really uncomfortable about 'if you don't believe, he won't come'?

No, me too. I think a lot of the guff around Santa from some parents is a lot less about “keeping the magic alive” and more about trying to keep them babied as long as possible. I’m all for it when kids are younger but when it’s age appropriate I think it’s only fair to tell them the truth. It’s always bitter sweet as is any rite of passage and moving on but they grow up and not believing in Santa any more is part of that. I told my kids when they were 10, although they already had doubts. I thought that was old enough and didn’t want them to be the butt of playground jokes by still believing when most others knew the truth. Of course I told them not to spoil it for others as no one had spoiled it for them

[LannisterLion1]

I think it's likely he's embarrassed for not realising and writing letters every day, he may well have mentioned it to a friend and been told by them.

Have you explained to him about white lies? I'd second the reading of hogfather (there may even be a film) and I'd respect his feelings though at the same time he needs find a way passed them and not wallow.

I think santa stuff can get really intense and i can see why the more intense it is, the more upset some kids will have: major investment in elf on shelf, daily letters, being told if you don't believe no gifts (just encourages the idea santa is only about gifts and worries some children they've been 'naughty' when not.).

[CareOfPunts]

And in my “bah humbug “ moments I don’t really get the “magic” either. Santa generally brings lots of gifts to already privileged children who have plenty of things and not to poor children who don’t have much at all. Hardly “magical”, is it, even if a kind Santa does buy a poor child a Lego set and a selection box whilst he brings their child an iPad

[Iamdobby63]

@snowybaubles
I have never told my kids Santa won't come. It's an awful thing to do, asking the same lines as if will tell the police man on you' or 'the shop lady will tell you off'

Not the same thing at all. I used this comment because friends had had the exact same issue as the OP on here, I didn’t want to outright lie to my kids nor did I want to risk upsetting them, said with a smile not a warning, also note that my kids were not that young when this was said, Santa is meant to be ‘magical’ after all. Whether you continue with stockings after they don’t believe is entirely up to each individual, we have always done separate presents from Santa and from us and they still would have got the same amount.

[snowybaubles]

Of course it's the same. It's passing the parenting on.

[snowybaubles]

Sorry maybe you misunderstood my comment?

I was saying I have never told them Santa won't come according to their behaviour

[Simkin]

He's punishing you. I think he's fine, after all he had an inkling didn't he? Tell him he can still believe in Santa if he likes. My DD asked a couple of years ago and as I was telling her her little face crumpled so I furiously backtracked and said 'do you think he's real' and we got another couple of years of good old doublethink santa. He'll be right.

[RollOnNextYear]

My ds asked that age. Said his friends said he'd not.
I just said
If. You want to belive he's real then he is. But if you stop believing then I'll have to fill Your stocking and I'm rubbish at things like that.
He was in the fence. Stayed awake till 5am! Told him the following year when he asked.

[Iamdobby63]

@snowybaubles I have also never used it as a behaviour threat. But it’s honestly not passing parenting on, I have never needed to do that. if my kids had shown that it was really important to know the reality then I would have approached it differently but it’s always been a bit tongue in cheek with us, they grew up unscathed anyway. Lol

[DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn]

I once told DS2 when he was being an arse that he'd be getting coal and potatoes for Christmas. He said "I'll make chips". Git.

(He was old enough to know it wasn't serious!)

[snowybaubles]

I have also never used it as a behaviour threat. But it’s honestly not passing parenting on, I have never needed to do that


Right, so why did you bother to comment when I posted about doing that? You don't do it so what's the problem? If people threaten their kids that Santa won't come if they don't behave it is exactly the same as telling them the police will come and get them or the shop lady will tell them off. It's giving authority to someone other than the parent. It's nonsense.

[Iamdobby63]

@snowybaubles because it wasn’t clear in the first instance that you were referring to it being about behaviour only and not about believing.