So, my job is under threat (again) because of Brexit.

[KenDodd]

Some jobs were cut last year as a direct result of Brexit, I survived the cut. Now it looks like the whole company might collapse (hopefully not) all because of Brexit, I didn't vote for any of this.

Aibu to be angry and blame the people who did vote for it?

You said yourself you didnt realise it would have economic consequences before we officially left, Deveraux

@Devereux1, I agree that no one could actually ell exactky how it would pan out.
However voting to stay was voting for what we KNEW. We knew where we were, what was good, what wasnt as good.
Voting to leave when there was no plan whatsoever about what it meant (see how people who voted leave were saying it would be hard brexit/a soft brexit, difference on the cost economically etc....). So basically that was voting for a big black box with no idea of what would be inside it. Dangeous imo.

So no it wasnt easy for most people to make a proper educated choice. Amnd they shouod be respected for it.
But when those same people tell you that actually it will all be sunny lands once the UK leaves when we now KNOW and all experts AGREE to it, it will not, then that's not doing the best choice for the country you think it is.

And then there is the list of beliefs that I would always struggle to accept. Like immigrants have invaded the country and we need to kick them al out because they are just taking from us all the time.
Or the feeling that 'we ought to go back to how things were, the good times of the 1950s'. (rea dwhatever you want behind that.... the empire? no internet? Im not sure tbh...)
But as a lot of those ideas are based on othering people, racism amd exclusion, then yes I feel I can judge those people saying those things.

The PPE/Eton debating society boys are all trained under the principle of "It doesn't matter what the topic is, you should be able to debate either side equally well" and we've ended up in a situation where to care,

And the sickest irony is that PM Johnson is just one such Eton boy who many suspect didn’t/doesn’t even believe in Brexit himself. I think he’s a nasty piece of work but he’s not completely stupid. He didn’t think fronting the Leave side was good for Britain, but he DID think it would be a good career move for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, sorry I mean “Boris”, and in that he was certainly correct it seems.

Patroclus
You said yourself you didnt realise it would have economic consequences before we officially left, Deveraux

Think you have the wrong poster. Where did I say that?

No, Devereux1. We need to have a confirmatory referendum right now, which is the last possible moment for being able to do so, before the UK exits the EU. Based on the updated information. Before the referendum, people like Farage told us that we would stay in the single market and there would be more money for the NHS and loads of great trade deals, fgs. We're now being taken out of the EU in just about the hardest way possible, wrecking our economy, putting the NHS at enormous risk, etc etc. It's a completely different proposition. And don't pretend that people knew what they were voting for - even the experts didn't know what would happen. Immediately after Brexit, there was an assumption that the UK would remain in the Single market, and not much would change.
If Remain wins, there would need to be time to reintegrate ourselves in the EU, and address the fuck-ups caused by our own government, which led to the Brexit decision, before considering another referendum. If Leave won a 2nd referendum, then I imagine that it would be decades before the EU would consider allowing us in again. So no chance of any 3rd referendum for decades, if ever.

I do wish people, from all sides, on every topic out there not just Brexit, would refrain from this relatively recent thing of always assuming that someone with an opposing view just needs more education, or "doesn't understand" what they want, or what the issues are.

Interesting.

For someone who has more than once demanded an "exact" answer to a question I notice you haven't bothered answering mine.

You don't have to, of course. It's entirely your right to state that you totally understood without adding anything else, just as it is my right not to believe you.

But I have to admit I am surprised given your record of asking for details from others that you didn't even try.

CanIHaveADrink So while we were in the EU, not one person has lost their job in the U.K.
I’ll start with British Steel,

I voted remain however, think a lot of companies are using it as an excuse, to downsize and not take the blame for their own shit management

@Torchlightt

So you want only one re-vote, because you believe it's democratic for the people to be able to change their mind.
But you only call for a re-vote when the original vote didn't go the way you wanted.
Had the original vote gone your way, then you wouldn't believe it's democratic for the people to change their mind.
You'd say "you had your chance, the vote stands."
But because you lost, you don't like "you had your chance, the vote stands".
So you have to come up with something else.
And that's to "confirm" the first vote.
Because we didn't press hard enough when we wrote our 'X' in the box, did we the first time?
Because 17.4 million people didn't know what they were voting for, did they? Somehow all the others did, but all the information in the world and all the knowledge which Leavers had and all the opinions and preferences which Leavers had didn't exist in the parallel universe which you believe must have existed.
So you argue for the right to change our minds.
But only once.
Why only once?
Er.. you don't know.
Well only once if you win the next one. Suddenly democracy wouldn't be an issue.
And if you lost, democracy is an issue again, and you'd campaign and campaign to stop the result and urge for a 3rd referendum.
And so on and so on.

Do you urge for a second election after every election? Did you know all the policies of all the parties when you voted last time? When things become clearer in the weeks and months after a General Election, do you think the Election should go back to the people when we discover what they wrote in their manifestos was a pile of poo?

Do you not understand how elections, referendums and democracies work? What do you think you were taking part in when you chose to vote?

Devereux1 - I don't think you understand that that is not normally how referendums work! Most countries insist on MORE than 51% majority of voters to make such drastic changes precisely because getting 51% of the vote does not equal a real majority. This referendum was thrown together, didn't respect electoral law and was not democratic. It will be a sad day for real democracy if the result of such a flawed vote, which disenfranchised thousands is upheld. Other, more democratic, countries rerun elections if there is found to have been such interference and disenfranchisement as we had with the referendum - that is real democracy, not sweeping the irregularities under the carpet and pretending it was all fine.

Can you prove its because of Brexit or is that just the excuse you are being given. Brexit hasnt happened

Devereux1. You are simply lying about what I put in my post, to make it fit in with what you'd like to argue against.
I absolutely didn't say that if Remain lost a 2nd referendum I would campaign for a 3rd one. On the contrary, I said that if Remain lost I wouldn't expect there to be another chance for a referendum for decades, at best.
And it is gobsmackingly obvious that leavers (barring quite possibly a few extreme rightwingers and/or profiteers who were working quietly behind the scenes) didn't know what they were voting for. They were lied to over and over again. They were also in the main not economic experts. So how could they possibly have successfully predicted where a Leave win would end up?
Those who voted Remain were also largely not economic experts. But they were voting to continue in the EU, not for a massive change. Remainers knew a hell of a lot more about staying in the EU than leavers did about leaving it.
If you want to argue about Brexit, perhaps you could behave with the basic decency of addressing what other posters are actually saying?

@Confusedbeetle

Yes, the trouble my company is in is absolutely 100% a direct result of Brexit with no other factors at play.

@Hester54 and what is the relationship between BRITISH steel and the EU? Has the Eu had any influence on that? Or is it a government issue, an international issu?

Because that’s what we are using here. The fact the the uncertainty with ‘getting Brexit done’ also means jib losses even before we have left the EU.

@Devereux1, in most ciuntry there is a threshold before a referendum is considered binding. And it’s not 50.1% majority but something like 60% of the electorate (not even the voters). The reason for that is that otherwise, it’s very hard to implement the result and the risk of people ‘changing their mind’ is very high.

One country who is using referendums all the time with this idea that 50.1% is enough is Switzerland. And they are saying it’s actually NOT a good way to govern.
For issues like this where it’s extremely complex, lies were told etc etc, it’s certainly isn’t the right way to approach the problem imo.

I will lose my job if Labour get into power. Will I blame the majority of MN? Of course not!

Devereux1
How soon after any election/referendum do you think another election/referendum should take place? The next day? The next week? Next month?

As soon as we can vote an the range of possibilities for leave.

How many should be allowed, in your version of democracy? Another one? 10? 50? 100?

I am not sure how you fail to understand how democracy works, it is on going. after (if) we leave should people be prevented from campaigning to go back in?
If enough people want it shouldn't we go back in?
If enough people now want to stay because they know more about what they voted for shouldn't they be allowed to change their minds?

Is there any point that the retakes stop, in your view?

Again democracy is an on going process it doesn't stop just because you (we) won once.

And lets not forget that this referendum was spectacularly flawed (on both sides).

So yes lets have another, with both sides telling the truth and adhering to the law.

CanIHaveADrink Due to the EU tariffs, The U.K. can’t put extra tariffs on imported steel from China, undercutting BS

To whoever asked, British animation, film and television are booming.

They have little to do with the EU, who rarely throw them much of a bone, they work on a global rather than European scale (particularly in animation, which works a lot with the US and Korea) and the plunging pound has made the UK a much more attractive investment for big media companies who want to buy our content or co-produce it.

Yes there may be a bit more admin with securing filming permits/visas but only in as much as there's currently admin involved in securing visas and filming permits for locations outside the EU.

@Parky04

Why will you lose your job if Labour win? Not that they will win anyway.

@Devereux1 Ok, let's say 3 years ago you were asked if you wanted to relocate to an amazing location, all inclusive, no intrusion and 350mill spending money to do as you see fit. You excitedly said yes. Nothing was in place because they needed to get your answer first. Now, they started looking and offered you a piss poor location, in someone's cousin's basement, the all inclusive is the bin behind the local restaurant and the 350 mil spending money was never actually on the table. Are you seriously telling me, you shouldn't be asked if you still wanted to relocate under these circumstances, because 3 years ago you enthusiastically said yes??? You might of course still choose to go because it's a change and you'll make it work or you might decide that this is not what you signed up for.

Also, there is a general election every few years, if things don't go your way you can try again at the next election and sooner or later things do change.

If this is your take on democracy then why are we even having periodical general elections, surely once you voted that's it (until the party leader dies or whatever).

Just wait until the Tories remove the courts legal oversight of government, you might not get to vote again.