Ex feeding DS sisters expressed breast milk

[Scousefae]

Without going into too much detail, ex and I have never seen eye to eye since DS's birth (he is now 4.5 months old). It's the usual bollocks of he and his family knows better, I'm a bad mum blah blah blah. Just for the record, DS is perfect weight, happy and hitting all development milestones as he should be. He is well loved, cared for and he has everything he could ever possibly need.

It recently came to light that he had discussed the need to feed DS breast milk as I 'couldn't be bothered' and had no care for DS's well being' at our shared work place. This is not the case, we tried for the first month and struggled due to a tongue tie which wasn't diagnosed when leaving the hospital.

I have tried to discuss this with him but hit the usual wall of ignorance. He tends to ignore me to maintain some kind of moral high ground whenever he is caught out in a lie or caught out generally being a prick.

There has been constant lies and feeding of the work place gossips well before DS was born and I am well aware this could be the same but as a lot of things said have turned out to ring true I am absolutely furious with him.

I understand wet nurses are used in certain situations and have nothing against it but I do not want my child to breastfed by another woman, whether the milk is expressed or not.

I am sick with anger but am worried I am being unreasonable to be so mad. Things are really bad at the moment between us and we are currently attending mediation so I want to make sure I deal with it in the right way.

What would you do? Am I being the unreasonable one here? I really don't believe I am but am happy to hear that I am.

Thank you all

Zeeboo There's not a damn thing wrong with formula and the woman who is making the milk is not even blood related to that child

This can't be for real?
Your son comes home injured.
The father isn't that bothered about seeing him and only does so because his family push it.
And this on top of the fact that his sister in law is feeding your baby. Are you sure it's only expressed milk?

Stop access. Tell him if he wants access he can go to court. There you can request supervised access. Have you evidence of burn marks and grab marks (whatever they are?) Although if there is another baby in the house it would be likely to be from them. Not ideal but not a crime.

@Scousefae grab marks on his face on numerous occasions ....

Do you mean the marks on his face as you mentioned from another child or are you suggesting your ex is physically harming your son?

Op, end contact immediately, let him take you to court. If he refuses to pay maintenance then onto the CMS and let them do it for you. Take control of this, you don’t have to put up with it.

I think I'd definitely be speaking to a HV (with time stamped photos) and then a solicitor. If it was an agreement between you and the SIL that your DS is given her BM when he's at contact with his father then fair enough. But to do it against your wishes, and then to ignore you and block you. That is absolutely horrendous.

Your DS could have allergies or intolerances. And just because she was screened in pregnancy for STDs etc doesn't mean she may not have contracted something since then and if she had, would she broadcast it etc. She could be taking medication or anything that would have an effect on your DS.

Him coming home injured, babies especially very tiny babies, should not be coming home injured. You need to protect your DS and take advice from a solicitor.

I don't think you're being unreasonable. However I'd much rather my ex feed my young baby milk from another woman than a cow. I'd be livid if my babies received formula without my consent.

But therein lies the issue, your baby drinks formula milk not human milk, so something else without your consent is the problem.

This hub hub about screaming is bullshit really and a red herring. The problem is consent.

Screening!

OMG I'd be livid!!!! He wouldn't be seeing him out of my sight again, especially when so little!!!

I would be fit to be tied. Absolutely furious. Apart from all the health aspects, etc., it's also the fact that he has proven he's going to make whatever decisions he likes, with no input from you.

As your baby is so young, be aware that the current advice regarding over nights and long stretches away from their Mother is to wait until they are much older now, (I think it was at least two) I had a similar situation when my ds was small (but without the breastfeeding) that his Dad would want to look like Daddy of the year by asking for him 2 days a week and I thought I would look possessive or unreasonable stopping it, it soon became clear that he was leaving him with his Grandmother for at least half of that time and I didn't think I had the right to stop it. I still feel very angry about all of the days he was sat in storage around there when he was a very clingy toddler when he was with me. When he was old enough to verbalise his feelings he told me he always misses me when I'm not there and I do think I did him a disservice not just putting my foot down. Especially as the kind of person who is not passionate about utilising their time with their child or providing for them is probably highly unlikely to spend money and effort taking you to court for a bit of extra time.

I know they can make choices during their time about who they leave the child with, but at that age I don't think the court would push you to give them so much time that they would get bored and fuck off out. 4 and a half months is tiny.

Never mind the milk, he travels without strapping him into the car seat and you continued to allow him unsupervised access?

As above ^ This

* Never mind the milk, he travels without strapping him into the car seat and you continued to allow him unsupervised access?*

The milk is unpleasant and distressing but no grounds for contact stopped or restricted in eyes of family law

The car seat strapping though is breaking the law. I’m astonished your thread is about the milk rather than this tbh

I've read the whole thread pretty much, I would be fuming op. Think you're doing the right thing, no wonder DS has had diarrhoea, it's messing with him poor thing.

Ignore him, he's a stupid fool along with his sister, shecsohuld know better at what she's done. It is out of spite, doing it behind your back too. Get hv involved, get supervised visits and if he is indeed how you say I think this should be a permanent thing.

What?!!!!
He's seriously overstepped some boundaries, and so has his sister. I can't believe this!

FED is best!! Not breast, not formula but a baby who is fed!

I had twins 14 years ago and one wouldn't breastfeed (ended up being tongue tie in son, daughter breastfed like a dream...). My older son breastfed for four years. And you know what, the child who was fed exclusively formula from 3 days old is the child who never gets ill!! He probably has the highest IQ out of all three too! Just shows that there isn't always a correlation between breastfeeding being beneficial to the immune system or intelligence.

So please do not let him try and make you feel inadequate for not breastfeeding your son. He's in the wrong here, not you!

I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation to be honest, it's a very weird situation he and his sister have put you in.

Given how rubbish he seems in general, and your concerns about his safety, I'd be wanting to make some changes to contact. I'm amazed you aren't more upset about the car seat thing (how do you know this BTW?), let alone anything else.

But the milk, I don't really see as an issue, except he's likely doing it to be spiteful given the background. Given the sister is bf her own young baby, the likelihood of her having a communicable disease she doesn't know about is tiny. Her antenatal tests would have picked it up, and she's exposing her own child to her milk.

If you wanted to use donor milk (official or unofficial), I bet you wouldn't give your ex a veto, so I'm not sure you should have a veto on what your ex feeds him as long as its milk suitable for a baby his age. Which informally donated bm is. Plenty of people mix feed, so I don't see that him having a combination is a problem either. I can totally see why it feels hurtful, but in reality it's hurting you, not baby.

Formula is incredible too
I mean, it's really not, but okay.

When was the sisters last HIV check? I can’t remember the exact statistics but there’s an huge amount of people estimated to be living undiagnosed in the UK with HIV.

HIV can be transmitted via breast milk. The current guidelines are that even when on effective medication which reduces the viral load to undetectable levels to not breastfeed anyway.

Not to mention Hep B/C the risk of medication transfers, illegal drugs etc. By all accounts she’s not related to either one of you so who fucking knows what this woman’s putting into her body.

Oh my goodness I would be utterly furious about this, I really, really feel for you. This is not okay.

@doodleschmoodle You mentioned you are a maternity nurse. May I ask, are all pregnant women screened for HIV in the UK?

This sounds like an awful situation to be in. If you donate breastmilk you have to be screened healthwise. It's really not ok that he's done this behind your back. Even though you are separated it has to be something decided together. I'd find this upsetting too. The way he is about you in front of colleagues is vile. The seatbelt thing and the marks he's come home with are enough to start thinking about restricting his access before he gets worse...

it is understandable that the OP feels uncomfortable with his exH decision to feed her baby another woman's breastmilk. However, if it had been the OP who chose to feed her baby donated milk from her sister or sister-in-law, her exH would have no grounds for complaint (and I bet plenty of mumsnetters would have defended her actions and told her that her exH had no right to tell her what to feed her baby).. The OP's exH is the baby's father, so it should apply equally to him.

Also, for all the PPs who are oncerned about the possibility of infection transmisison, let me tell you, it is incredibly rare even with unscreened milk. And yes, I have plenty of knowledge as I am a midwife who works in hospitals which have donated milk banks (not only for preemie babies, but for all babies) and works with people in the community who donate to each other. I am still ter hear about a single issue resulting from it. And I know my experience is just one case, however I invite you to look into the evidence. Damage resulting from donated breast milk is very rare. It is much, much more likely that a baby will get sick/die due to bacteria in formula than in donated breastmilk. In fact, I have been trying to find cases of babies who got sick/died because of donated breastmilk, and the only cases I can find happened as a direct result of contamination in the hospital's utensils (yes, the hospital that was supposed to test and keep the milk safe). If you look for cases of babies made sick/dying because of formula... well, let's say just try it yourself and see it with your own eyes.

The donated milk itself, regardless of the "yuck" factor, is not the issue. Legally your exH has the right to feed the baby as he feels is best, and actually donated breastmilk IS the best for your son. The real issues are 2: first, that he did this without consulting you, which is a moral issue, not a health or legal one. And 2, the many other instances of very concerning behaviour which you seem not to even have mentioned until much later in the thread, i.e., feeding your days-old baby water (which, unlike the donated breast milk, could have killed him), not restraining him while in a car, returning him home with possible injuries, etc etc.

I personally cannot understand why you keep focussing on the donated milk when all these other potentially fatal issues are happening. Please reconsider your priorities.

I would stop access immediately. You’ve got a massive list of unacceptable risk that your baby is facing under his care. Surely there is someone you can take advice from?

@HermoineMakepeace all pregnant women in the UK are recommended to be screamed for HIV, Syphilis and Hepatitis B. However if any of these are contacted in the couple of months prior to pregnancy or during, then it may not show up on the test. Women aren't routinely screened for hepatitis C.

OP you constantly refer to 'sister' but then state they are not biologically related. Do you mean Sister in Law or step sister? In either case if you had used either of those terms it would be clear to all that this women is not a blood relative of your DS.

Given everything you've said I wouldn't be allowing access at all away from your home for such a tiny baby, is there any reason why your ex couldn't come and visit in your home? If he's not interested in being a father it's not really in the best interests of your son for you to bend over backwards, be messed around etc of access. He's taking the piss and will continue to do so for as long as you allow it.

I'd go absolutely nuts, I bf SIL didn't, babies similar age, if my brother even so much as mentioned me giving DN my breast milk I'd think he was very strange. If they came to me as a couple and said there was a health issue, recommended by dr etc and they'd rather it be a family member than a stranger of course I'd help as much as I physically could. I'd be withdrawing access not supervised by a suitable adult.