To change who I'm voting for based on one news story?

[ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun]

This one ->

www.itv.com/news/2019-11-27/jeremy-corbyn-says-uncensored-documents-show-nhs-is-part-of-toxic-post-brexit-trade-talks-with-us/

I had already decided to vote for the conservatives, mainly because I couldn't bring myself to vote for any of the others who seem hell bent on gleefully ripping up womens rights. I've always voted so abstaining/spoiling wasn't an option.

But after reading/watching the above I think I am going to switch to voting labour. We are a disabled family, and could never afford to pay for healthcare (and I doubt insurance would touch us with a barge pole).

I don't like Momentum/Corbyn really but I'd rather complain and fight for my right to a single sex ward than not be able to use one at all

Re: brexit I voted remain in the last referendum but to be honest just have fatigue about the whole thing, so I'm not basing my vote on any of that. (Though seems a second vote isn't that terrible an idea).

Just posting because I can't see anything on here about this yet and I've gone from feeling quietly confident that Conservatives would win to feeling nervous about it now. Anyone else?

If you applied a bit more critical thinking you might realise that the documents relate to discussions held with Theresa May’s government 2 years ago AND they don’t actually say what Corbyn claims they do.

It’s propaganda to distract from Corbyn’s car-crash interview with Andrew Neil last night - nothing more and nothing less.

YANBU. I was going to vote Lib Dem but after their "Loans to Rent" policy I won't be .

@CendrillonSings

Or, if you weren't all so thick....

It's not propaganda, it's reality. Nobody believes it because it's so out there but the Tories really are selling off the NHS

Do some more research first. Read about what the document really is and what it really says.

Yanbu op what a disgraceful plan from the conservatives.

Yes you'd be unreasonable to base your vote on that article.

Somebody needs to step in and run the nhs as a private business. It's the only way it is going to work and by private business I mean one that isn't nationalised but is still funded by the government thorough taxation. (Not one which you have to pay to use which I think when people mention privatisation of the nhs people think of). And before anybody chimes in with the PFIs, they are only shit because nhs workers who actually have fuck all idea of running a business negotiated them.

CendrillonSings It said the discussions began under TM in Novemner 2017 but have been continued a few times since then?

I'm not a tribal voter, I go on what's important to me at any given election. The NHS is absolutely vital to me so it's what I have to base this vote on I think.

I take it none of you use GPs then?

@Bloomburger

They tried that. Google Hinchinbrooke.

Absolutely not unreasonable. I'm afraid people won't realise what we've lost until it's gone.

@CendrillonSings
The same political parties would still be negotiating though even if the leader of the weaker negotiating party had changed.

The USA will still want the same things and be negotiating from a position of power and control to get them.

One reason they will still want this is the the amount of money healthcare spends on lobbying in the USA political system

Healthcare-related lobbying hits $555M in 2017

This money buys a lot of power and influence every year.

Of course the conservatives are selling off the NHS, they have been for years to their rich friends. Jeremy C Hunt literally wrote the book on it.

The leaked documents are what the US trade envoys have requested (or had requested from Teresa May's government) NOT what the government have agreed to.

Is it really news that the US want the NHS to on the table in the talks? I thought this had been around for ages.

Quote from New Statesman:

"Bruised by a day of intense scrutiny over alleged anti-Semitism within the Labour party yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn tried to reset the agenda today, with the unveiling of 451 pages of unredacted information about UK-USA trade talks from July 2017 until a few months ago.

The documents show that the US demanded talks to proceed with “total market access as the baseline assumption”. As Corbyn put it, “the US is demanding the NHS is on the table in the trade talks.”

Nice dead cat from Corbyn though. Well done that man.

YANBU. The NHS should be a deal breaker for anyone. I have private medical insurance for my whole family through work but still think it would be selfish and disastrous to vote for a party that has caused misery and poverty for millions already and will continue to do so. I’d happily pay more tax to live in a fairer society.

I’m curious as to why you say the Conservatives would be better than Labour for women’s rights. What has led you to that conclusion OP?

This is a rubbish story. I know a lot of people who work in the NHS. At th clinical end this perception is being broadly swallowed but at a higher level of economics, not.
The NHS is not being sold off. It has always been a political football and an emotional one. Life is much more complicated. It is emotional blackmail. Various parts have been contracted out piecemeal for 40 years, under both conservative and labour. Some good some bad. It is an enourmous complex organisation. If this is the basis of your changing your vote then VBU

It’s propaganda to distract from Corbyn’s car-crash interview with Andrew Neil last night - nothing more and nothing less.

Interview? I didn't see an interview. I saw an attack the likes of which I daresay won't be repeated against Johnson by his cronies at the BBC. But paint it however you like.

Bloomburger from my experience (PIP/DLA) outsourcing to private companies doesn't seem to improve efficiency at all.

I've been relatively lucky with the above benefits, but still had to go to tribunal, wasting £££ of tax payers money to get the benefits I was entitled to. This was because someone from a private company was poorly trained and incentivised to keep costs down by denying benefits.

The old system of relying on actual medical professionals advice was much more simple/cheaper.

I don't agree with all the policies of any party, but I definitely do not want the NHS privatised. Restructured/reformed yes.

YANBU

During election campaigning think about what any skilled advertising company would do. You have taken the hook

Yanbu, I'm fairly similar, I'm disabled a single parent to a disabled child, on disability benefits, I live in social housing. Over the last 5 years I have been put through 7 assessments for my disability benefits, am dreading being moved over to UC, my son has been failed by his school because they haven't given him the support he needs, he has been waiting nearly 3 years to see a psychologist about his anxiety & depression. There is nothing the Tories are offering that would make my life any better, if Labour only managed half of their manifesto my life would improve a lot & I would feel more confident about ds future

Channel 4 did a Dispatches broadcast about this. I think it expires on the Channel 4 player today.

The particularly depressing part for me was them exposing the government's decision to adjust the language it uses in documents to make it less obvious what they're doing. Because they know people won't be happy.

According to Dispatches the discussions have taken place while Boris Johnson has been PM. So I wouldn't be too quick to believe the Tories lying and saying these are historic documents.

Too many Tories have been proven liars too many times since the referendum for me to believe or trust them anymore.

Nice dead cat from Corbyn though

I thought the document said that our representatives had reassured USA that 'full market access' was going to be on the table?

I don’t trust any of them . I see the damage conservatives have done , tax cuts to the rich . I could never support them .

Sorry posted on wrong thread.

YANBU to vote for anyone but the tories in order to try to save the NHS (I’m not voting Tory and never will for same reason amongst others) but this:

I had already decided to vote for the conservatives, mainly because I couldn't bring myself to vote for any of the others who seem hell bent on gleefully ripping up womens rights. I've always voted so abstaining/spoiling wasn't an option

Confused me because when have the tories ever given a tiny shit about women’s rights?! I’d argue they’ve done more damage to women as a whole than Labour ever have?! And no, Labour aren’t perfect either