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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I just resigned! AIBU to not pay for work course before leaving

210 replies

Hellomumsne · 26/11/2019 23:35

I have a dilemma I could use some help with.

My job offered for me to go on a very expensive (£4500) course a few months ago. They actually persuaded me to do it and said they'd love for me to have the chance...

At the time I said I've already studied said subject so I wasnt sure I needed it. And I also asked if there were any conditions and was told no.

There's a bit of a back story with a bit of a rubbish and absent manager who's quite clueless... also a little bullying and unfair treatment.

So I've just accepted a new job which unluckily I was offered while doing the course.

I resigned and have now been asked by literally furious manager to pay back the money or face legal action.

It would be easier for the sake of peace to pay back but I would need to take it from my mortgage.

One friend advised me to pay it back for peace. Another advised me to no way pay it back and go to Citizens Advice.

I have no idea. AIBU to walk away without paying (and face legal action)... or should I just take the hit and pay?

OP posts:
beminetonight · 28/11/2019 17:59

You don't have to pay them back. Imo YABU to knowingly go on an expensive course at the company's expense when you were actively planning on leaving your job. Someone else in the company could have benefited from it. Will you rely on your current employer for a reference? My friend is in HR. She had told me most references seem to be verbal interview style nowadays rather than old style written. Your actions won't reflect well with any future employer.

Miranda15110 · 28/11/2019 17:59

My employer paid for my degree. Each year whilst studying I signed a form that said I would pay back the cost of the course if I left with 2 years of completion.

Don’t pay it or offer to pay it.

MummyBee173 · 28/11/2019 18:00

I think the owner is hopping mad because she didn’t get you to sign anything & now realises she doesn’t have a leg to stand on! It would cost them more to sue you than the £4,500 they want you to repay so very unlikely to take legal action, also very unlikely to be enforceable. They definitely can’t take it from your wages without facing a counterclaim from you for unlawful deduction. Just a thought, if your new employer will benefit from you having this training, could you ask them to reimburse your employer & in return your company let you leave sooner & start your new job? Gets you out of the toxic environment, new company get you sooner & old company get their money...maybe a win:win:win situation.

Tistheseason17 · 28/11/2019 18:01

How odd that you went on a week long course costing thousands but did not receive a qualification. I'd be more annoyed about that for the money!!!

RB68 · 28/11/2019 18:02

I wld get a local employment lawyer to write them a letter outlining won't be paying it back, not allowed to deduct from holidays or final payments and that it is not legal to persue you for the money under xyz law. It is a cost of employing people and one of those things - I think its temper talking and the 50 quid letter from lawyer will get them to back off

SoupDragon · 28/11/2019 18:04

"We booked it for employee X, but she left so how about you go"

They didn't book it for the woman who left.

MachineBee · 28/11/2019 18:18

I originally voted YABU but having seen your updates I’ve changed it. Your employers are BU and you should tell you’ve checked with ACAS re repayment. Don’t feel guilty, jobs come up at the most inconvenient times and you can apply but not know if you’ll get an interview, never mind an offer.

And IME, employers will dismiss/make redundant staff when they want without regard to their employees situations. You shouldn’t worry about theirs. It’s just business.

Iriahm · 28/11/2019 18:25

Agree with posts. If nothing in contract they can’t do anything. I’ve just had to pay back sick pay after successfully suing person who injured me - had no idea this was in contract until lawyers pointed it out. And I thought I read my contract fully 🤦🏻‍♀️

MC68 · 28/11/2019 18:45

If you or anyone you know have anything to do with the ‘Which’ publication/website they have a legal team which can assist you with this; good luck Smile

Passenger42 · 28/11/2019 18:55

You can take out a case for unlawful deduction of wages if they try to recover the funds out of your final pay and accrued leave. If you haven't signed a training agreement then they cannot invoice you for the course.

reginafelangee · 28/11/2019 18:57

Call ACAS tomorrow morning for advice. The number is 0300 123 1100 and they are open 8am until 6pm.

Unless there is something in your contract or you have agreed to conditions on this training then your employer cannot require you to pay this money.

But

That won't necessarily stop them from trying. Speak to ACAS to get advice on how to handle this situation so that you don't end up in a costly legal dispute or have problems trying to get your final wage.

(As an employer I would have drawn up an agreement with you before paying for a training course of that amount so that I didn't end up out of pocket if you left like this).

Theluckynumberthree · 28/11/2019 19:01

Would love an update on what your company says. ACAS are great for advice!

GnomeDePlume · 28/11/2019 19:05

@Hellomumsne, when my line manager decided he wanted wanted to change my location to a site an extra 1.5 hour's commute away I found the words 'I have been in contact with ACAS' took a lot of wind out of his sails.

YANBU to walk away. Dont worry about the manager. Make sure that any requests for reference are directed to HR (possibly company policy anyway).

Well done on getting a new role.

TooSweetToBeSour · 28/11/2019 19:07

@Hellomumsne have they locked you in a cupboard until you repay the debt? Grin

FelicisNox · 28/11/2019 19:26

As far as I know, if you've nothing in writing to clarify repayment conditions it is unenforceable.

I did training at my company and had to sign a disclaimer that stated if I left the company within 2 years of the course I would have to pay it back.

Check with Acas to be sure.

In the meantime you could address it with your manager by sending an email:

Good afternoon ........
As you are aware, I have handed my notice in on ........
My last working day will be .........
You have recently raised the topic of XYZ course and have stated you would like me to refund the cost.
Please forward me the paperwork that's states I am legally bound to cover the costs of this course so I may discuss the matter with ACAS.

Kindest regards
@Hellomumsne

ReanimatedSGB · 28/11/2019 19:47

Well, they are a bunch of cunts. Tell them that you will be seeking legal advice and that until you have taken it, you are not entering into any agreement.

HermioneWeasley · 28/11/2019 19:47

Just coming in to agree that in the absence of an explicit agreement giving consent to recover the costs, then what they are proposing is an unlawful deduction from wages

PassMeAnotherCoffee · 28/11/2019 20:07

Hope they've accepted your argument hellomumsne.

FrogLion · 28/11/2019 20:48

Could you ask your new employer to pay, they did offer the job whilst on the course, effectively putting you in this this position?

plightofthealbatross · 28/11/2019 20:56

Stand firm but polite. What they are asking is unreasonable and unlawful, and you won't be paying for it.

SynchroSwimmer · 28/11/2019 21:01

Just want to send you a note of support and say well done OP.

Onwards and upwards.

Your employer, in promoting someone less experienced, who is taking on part of your role, with the mention of slight bullying behaviour etc, leaving you with some uncertainties through the year when they advertised other posts allied with some of your duties - well the company haven’t exactly thought it through, shown loyalty to you or worked at retaining you.

They could have been procatively working on staff retention....

Wishing you all the best for a brighter, happier future.

Pinkerbells · 28/11/2019 21:22

I had this a few years ago, but they forget to get me to sign a contract binding me to the company for a year after I had finished. They didn't have a leg to stand on

MagratsDanglyCharms · 28/11/2019 21:24

My contract doesn't mention training. Just that any "losses" will be taken from the salary.

In which case YWNBU to refuse to pay it back as the contract is unenforceable ie not specific in what happens on resigning within x amount of time of a paid course. Bit of a difficult one morally of course because it sounds as if it's a huge expensive for the business, however, a salutary lesson for them to ensure contracts are watertight in future.

Good luck OP

FaveNumberIs2 · 28/11/2019 21:32

If you accepted a place on the course knowing full well you’d applied and interviewed for another job, then yes, I would say you owe them the cost of the course.

They sent you there for their benefit, not some other company’s benefit. So really, when they offered you the course you should’ve declined.

Jack80 · 28/11/2019 21:59

I would check what your contract states about courses