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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I just resigned! AIBU to not pay for work course before leaving

210 replies

Hellomumsne · 26/11/2019 23:35

I have a dilemma I could use some help with.

My job offered for me to go on a very expensive (£4500) course a few months ago. They actually persuaded me to do it and said they'd love for me to have the chance...

At the time I said I've already studied said subject so I wasnt sure I needed it. And I also asked if there were any conditions and was told no.

There's a bit of a back story with a bit of a rubbish and absent manager who's quite clueless... also a little bullying and unfair treatment.

So I've just accepted a new job which unluckily I was offered while doing the course.

I resigned and have now been asked by literally furious manager to pay back the money or face legal action.

It would be easier for the sake of peace to pay back but I would need to take it from my mortgage.

One friend advised me to pay it back for peace. Another advised me to no way pay it back and go to Citizens Advice.

I have no idea. AIBU to walk away without paying (and face legal action)... or should I just take the hit and pay?

OP posts:
Original poster
Hellomumsne · 27/11/2019 00:30

So I've possibly dug myself in a hole for suggesting it...

OP posts:
Longfacenow · 27/11/2019 00:31

I think ACAS can advise better than us OP.

Get some rest!

Original poster
Hellomumsne · 27/11/2019 00:34

Ok good advice. Thanks everyone. Will keep you posted!

OP posts:
BlackCatSleeping · 27/11/2019 00:37

I agree to get some ACAS advice, if possible.

I don't think your email could be considered legally binding. You can send another saying, "after receiving advice, I realise I am not legally required to pay back the training costs. I will be taking the following leave days: x".

Good luck!

MummytoCSJH · 27/11/2019 00:38

As before ACAS can advise more but afaik if you've looked into it /got legal advice and legally you don't have to, it doesn't matter what you said in an email after the fact. It wasn't agreed. She was railroading you because she was angry you were leaving!

IAmNotAWitch · 27/11/2019 00:39

Yes ACAS and proper legal advice. MNers are great but they often give advice on what they THINK the law should be rather than what it is.

CrumpetyTea · 27/11/2019 00:40

A friend of mine did this (I was working in the same company as her)- they had paid for her to do an international MBA (so very expensive) and for some reason didn't put in any conditions (they usually did) - when she resigned they asked her to pay it back- she pointed out it wasn't in the conditions and so didn't pay it back. they were annoyed but there was nothing they could do. Hasn't caused her any problems.
If I were you I wouldn't pay it- its not as if you wanted to go on the course or it was really to your advantage

BestOption · 27/11/2019 01:01

They can’t just deduct it from your salary (even if your salary did cover ur).

Your Boss might think it’s unfair, but if you haven’t signed anything binding you, he can wail all he likes 🤷🏻‍♀️ If he wasn’t so incompetent it wouldn’t be an issue 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

TheNestedIf · 27/11/2019 01:37

Definitely get professional advice as it will depend on your contract but, just to warn you, DP was in this position earlier this year. The company did threaten him with court action and he did have to pay some of his training costs back.

He did get legal advice. He managed to negotiate offering a portion of the costs rather than the whole amount because he could prove the company had repeatedly failed to give him the necessary practical experience and that they had failed to reschedule some sessions they knew he was physically unable to attend.

They do seem to have verbally messed you around. Good luck.

BlackCatSleeping · 27/11/2019 01:42

@TheNestedIf

Did your husband sign anything though?

When my friend did a course through her work, she had to sign a contract detailing what she would pay back if she quit within certain time frames. I think that's usual.

The OP didn't sign anything like that.

VenusTiger · 27/11/2019 01:55

OP are you still on the course and are you planning on finishing it? Is it something your new employer might be willing to continue to pay (pay remainder to current employer) and you pay back the percentage you’ve completed so far?

Reminds me of a certain Friend who mistreated an employee for this - he was leaving the company to move hundreds of miles back home. They treated him disgracefully, even ordering some of us not to engage in conversation with him at all. Managers were vile and hostile, they were why I left.

VenusTiger · 27/11/2019 02:04

Also OP, note the anger from company director and HRs insistence that you will pay it all back - they’re crapping themselves that they didn’t get you to sign any documents, hence their behaviour.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 02:23

Tell ACAS that you offered verbally to repay,
but hopefully - since you were at the time unaware of your rights - this won't affect them

Don't pay anything back unless ACAS tell you that you have to - which I'm sure they won't

In future, never offer to do something if you don't mean it, especially not when it involves money you can't afford.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 02:27

I'm sure many people who didn't know their rights have been conned / bullied into repaying course costs

However, unless there was a written agreement before the course to do so, there is no legal obligation to do so

Hence, as pp said, the fury of HR and the owner - they screwed up in giving you an expensive course without this prior agreement

ACAS first thing tomorrow !

justilou1 · 27/11/2019 02:56

Tell ACAS you were being intimidated and coerced. (Because you were....)

PenelopeFlintstone · 27/11/2019 03:03

Say that you said,”What? Do you want me to pay it back??” And that it was a question on what they were saying, rather than an actual offer.

Pomley · 27/11/2019 03:09

If you didn't sign anything stipulating a ROS then that's their fault, and you aren't obligated to pay it back.

daisychain01 · 27/11/2019 06:38

@Hellomumsne this scenario has cropped up on several occasions on the Employment Issues board.

You say in your OP that

  • the course was £4500
You were persuaded to take the course a few months ago.

More information is needed

I'd be interested to know the duration of the course for that amount of money and whether you've completed the course or if there are modules still to be completed. Is it specialist training for their organisation, or can you repurpose the training for other roles?

daisychain01 · 27/11/2019 06:39

Don't pay anything until you've checked your contract btw

flouncyfanny · 27/11/2019 06:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Hellomumsne · 27/11/2019 07:11

The course was just one week. I booked it with the office manager several months ago but it took place last week.
I was offered a course in that subject area but allowed to pick the actual course myself, so selected and attended the one I went on.
I accepted because the company owner was very upset about the previous girl rejecting the course offer and then leaving.
But I did raise with my manager the fact that it's not related to my role and ask if they wanted my job to change. He said no.
It's a nice to have subject but not something I need for my career as I'd already done much cheaper training in the subject and then narrowed down to a career path only slightly related to it.
My job title is nothing related to the course subject.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hellomumsne · 27/11/2019 07:12

I really appreciate all your advice by the way! Mumsnet to the rescue! ;) I feel I have a bit of strength to challenge this now.

OP posts:
mrsbyers · 27/11/2019 07:16

Don’t sign anything , you have no obligation to pay at all - put this in writing and send to HR and your manager as if it goes to court (unlikely though) you need to start a document trail

Note that you were told no terms on offer of course , nothing in your contract and that the employer were the party insisting on the course

NurseButtercup · 27/11/2019 07:21

The course was just one week. I booked it with the office manager several months ago but it took place last week.

Hang on, you went on the course last week and this week you've handed in your notice? Hmm

custardbear · 27/11/2019 07:27

Keep the emails saying 'please do the course' as it shows they've asked you, not thst you've asked them

Speak to ACAS too, good luck and sounds like you've had a lucky escape finding a new job