I just resigned! AIBU to not pay for work course before leaving

[Hellomumsne]

I have a dilemma I could use some help with.

My job offered for me to go on a very expensive (£4500) course a few months ago. They actually persuaded me to do it and said they'd love for me to have the chance...

At the time I said I've already studied said subject so I wasnt sure I needed it. And I also asked if there were any conditions and was told no.

There's a bit of a back story with a bit of a rubbish and absent manager who's quite clueless... also a little bullying and unfair treatment.

So I've just accepted a new job which unluckily I was offered while doing the course.

I resigned and have now been asked by literally furious manager to pay back the money or face legal action.

It would be easier for the sake of peace to pay back but I would need to take it from my mortgage.

One friend advised me to pay it back for peace. Another advised me to no way pay it back and go to Citizens Advice.

I have no idea. AIBU to walk away without paying (and face legal action)... or should I just take the hit and pay?

[Aloe6]

YY to ACAS. HR is there to look out for the companies best interests. I found ACAS very helpful on the occasion I called them too.

[HollowTalk]

It stands to reason, though, that if you don't work there you won't pay the bill for training, doesn't it? It would be different if it was eg an MA that you wanted to study for your own interest.

[zebra22]

Speak to ACAS

[1Morewineplease]

I would check with ACAS. Generally though, there are ties to costly training. Maybe you weren’t made aware of that. What does your line manager say?

[TimeForNewStart]

No, don’t pay it back. She is being a twat.

[Passthecherrycoke]

@marchez not if you haven’t signed anything they won’t.

[Hellomumsne]

I'll call ACAS tomorrow in that case. The only paper trail for the course is them saying please do it and then me sending the actual course that I selected for approval.

[MistyCloud]

@Hellomumsne

If it's not in your contract then you shouldn't have to pay.

I went on courses some years ago - ones that cost loads. Law related, and I.T. stuff.

It was in my contract that I have to pay for the course(s) in full, if I leave within a year of finishing the course, or 75% of the cost if leave within 2 years, 50% if I leave within 3 years, 25% if I leave within 4 years, and nothing if I leave after 5 years.

You need to check your contract, AND consult HR.

[MummytoCSJH]

Nope. She probably thinks you're unaware and will just pay it to get it over and done with, but you didn't agree to it and they have nothing signed that you did so not a leg to stand on. Speak to ACAS in case they try to force you but frankly they'll get nowhere.

[Hellomumsne]

Yes I think a lot if places have restrictions in place that you need to pay it back if you leave. But I was told that wasn't the case here...

[Hellomumsne]

(Although I didn't actually mention leaving, I just asked if came with any obligations). I would never have done the course if I'd have been tied to the company for longer.

[Hellomumsne]

It's definitely not in my contract.

[Mylittlerainbow]

If the course is something similar to an old NVQ or anything that is funded out of a company's apprenticeship levy pot, then the eSFA (skills funding agency) have regulations in place that mean that companies legally can't ask you for the money back or to contribute towards the cost of the course. A lot of companies try to threaten with this as I think it used to be Ok but now it's not legally enforceable. It's just the risk companies take by signing people up for training.

[Hellomumsne]

Ok phew, thanks for the advice. It's all just a bit scary to have to stand up to something like this, especially when they are hopping mad! The company owner takes things very personally but it was sheer coincidence that I was offered a job during training and resigned right after. I do feel bad but it's been a toxic environment at times so I'm happy to be moving on.

[MeTheCoolOne]

Hope ACAS can help

[Shooturlocalmethdealer]

You are under no legal obligation to pay them back OP.
Scare tactics is all.

[Hellomumsne]

The course was actually a conference with each day a separate workshop. It led to a certification but no formal qualification.

[Poissonpoison]

Congratulations on the new job. Agree acas is the best place to start, but doesny sound like they have a leg to stand on.

[Schuyler]

Do not verbally agree to a payment plan, this is very bad advice.

They don’t have a leg to stand on if there’s nothing in your contract.

[Hellomumsne]

Can they legally withold my final salary or prevent me taking (or getting the money from) my final annual leave days?

[cannycat20]

If it's a large company with pots of money then I'm surprised they don't have anything in their policies to cover it; in most places I've worked, whatever their size, there's been a 2 year to 5 year payback clause of some kind, or a training agreement that I signed to that effect, or it was in the employment contract.

Definitely speak to ACAS and maybe tell the company owner or HR you're leaving that you're taking independent legal advice? There aren't many non-uni or professional courses that would fall into that category, so I'm guessing it was deemed essential for you to do your job. (Though of course I might be wrong.) Do you have any emails from your boss, or was it all verbal only?

Good luck with the move, hopefully the new company will be nicer. (And also maybe think about joining a union when you move, if it's an option?)

[BigChocFrenzy]

Do not promise verbally or in writing to pay anything.

The owner is having a strop, but if it's not in your contract, then you don't have to pay

• but I suspect it will be written in to all future employment contracts at that firm !

Contact ACAS to check if you need do anything further on this matter

Your employer should not deduct anything from your final salary payments - since you don't owe them anything - but ask ACAS what to do if they try this on.

[Hellomumsne]

I don't think it was deemed essential for my job. It was actually quite unrelated to my job. Another girl who left was offered it and she declined. And then it was offered to me and presented as a good will sort of gift almost. I thought it was a bit odd and asked if they wanted me to do that different job in line with the course and they said no... and made out I should just enjoy the learning... in hindsight should also have declined!

[cstaff]

If they didn't had you sign anything in advance then that is their problem. At a guess I would say that is why your boss is so livid. Only thing is, he should be mad at himself for not covering his ass. Afaik they can't deduct your salary.

[Hellomumsne]

Stupidly, I actually offered to pay it back thinking they would decline... (as the timing looks terrible). But the company owner seems to have latched onto that now. At the time she said "I don't want your money, I just want you to stay"... all very nice but when I formally resigned things took a turn for the nasty and I got the email threatening legal action... then i replied (also stupidly) saying something like "as promised im happy to pay some of it back but will struggle no pay back the full amount"... and the reply to that was more threats.