AIBU to think she should make effort to be part of the family?

[Jj2431]

Hi. I need advice on if I am being unreasonable. Please help and be totally honest (I know you will)..

So, a few years ago me and my husband had a huge falling out with my in laws. Mainly due to them not asking after the kids when we spoke to them and just their general seemingly uncaring ways towards our children. During this argument, my BIL girlfriend, who he had only been seeing for 6 months and who we had only met briefly a handful of times, was bashing me to another member of the family (I saw evidence), she called me a mean cow and said I was orchestrating the whole argument (I wasn't). I was angry and upset that someone I barely knew could judge me like that and badly too. I confronted her and during that confrontation I admittedly said some vile things to her. We all fell out and a few months later I realised that even though I was hurt, my reaction to BIL girlfriend had been OTT. I sent her a message to apologise and said I didn't expect her to reply but I wanted her to know I was sorry. She didn't respond and I left it at that.

Fast forward a few years later and we have all made amends and things are better than they've ever been and I'm really happy about it. BIL now lives elsewhere in the country and has married the lady I argued with. We are now in the same family. She is now, in my mind, the children's aunt and I would be to any kids they have in the future but she still hasn't made amends with us and we haven't heard from her and she actively avoids us even on special occasions. Even the kids and MIL birthday and will stay away until she knows we have left. AIBU to think it was years ago, I've apologised and now we are family she should be making effort for at least her husbands sake if not anyone else's? AIBU to think she should message me or husband or turn up at least to special occasions now she's family? I understand we probably won't ever be best friends but I thought forgiveness and civility would happen at the very least now that they are married. I am upset and annoyed by this. Maybe I shouldn't be but family is important to me

Tell me..am I being unreasonable?

Teastory, lashing out? I don't see that.

OP, I have been verbally slated to my face in the past, by people I didn't expect an attack from (and some that I did, not that I deserved it). In every single case, I have avoided ever being near that person again, because I would just be on edge the whole time. I quite understand her not wanting to be anywhere near you again - if you said such things once she has no reason to believe you wouldn't a second time.

It just sounds like she didn’t really like you before your “outburst” and that she’s decided that she was right once you’d had your rant. It sounds like she basically doesn’t want anything more to do with you, whether you’ve apologised or not. That’s her prerogative.

In case there’s not enough, here’s another - YABU

It sounds like she criticised your behaviour, you reacted by insulting her appearance. There’s a big difference between those two - what someone has done vs what someone is. Generally the latter is much more hurtful, and unpleasant, than the other.

Well done on getting help and admitting your anger issues.

She obviously just can't get past what you said. She hasn't been perfect either but it is her right not to want to see you either. Like you said, you didn't know each other and that incident is probably what she judges you on.

If I were to, I'd just continue how you are and see if the situation thaws over some time.

Everyone jumped onto every argument there was too and would rather walk away from the children than to stay out of our arguments with other members of the family
She thinks you and your husband are drama llamas....and wants nothing to do with either of you.
She doesn't even want to be in the same room as you - cos drama llamas have a way of creating an atmosphere...or others end up walking on eggshells around them in order to avoid yet another argument.
Good on her for seeing through you both and choosing to keep her distance.

My husband and BIL argued.....I saw the girlfriend slate me behind my back when she didn't know me and had gone on the word of the in laws
So why didn't you confront BIL/IL's for chatting shit about you to his gf?
I went for her as she was the one who targeted me personally. BIL didn't
You just said it was the in-laws who were chatting shit AND that they weren't treating you and your family well - so you DID feel victimised by them.

she called me a mean cow and said I was orchestrating the whole argument....i even went on to get anger management after as I realised I do react without thinking

So she was right then - you and DH were behaving like drama llamas with various family members, just cos it was your DH doing the 'arguing on the phone' doesn't mean you weren't involved, even your BIL/IL's thought you were actively involved in the disagreements.

Now YOU'VE been to anger management...miraculously everything is ok.
So it WAS your thoughts/feelings influencing (orchestrating) the dramas.

Just accept that she saw right through your games and has made the right decision for her....and probably any future dc she has.

I'll play - in good faith. She doesn't seem to be trying to create any form of drama; conversely, she's actively avoiding it. She's just decided - pretty emphatically, by the looks of it - that she doesn't want to be around you or have any form of relationship with you.

I am that SiL. My DH's sister behaved disgustingly toward me when my mother died, and it created a lightbulb moment. I witnesed the reality of her personality that day and it was a case of once seen, impossible to go back and unsee. I would never wish harm on her, but I'm just as clear that I never want any form of relationship with her. I ensured we were VLC for years - not so DH - but of late we are completely NC with her at his instigation.

When someone gives you nothing at all you have little left to work with and your course of action is going to be strictly limited. Acceptance with dignity is about all you can do. You don't have a choice: the decision has already been made for you, so any question of YABU/YANBU is really moot.

You can't control how other people do/don't behave. You can only control how you behave/feel/react. Don't care so much. You are over invested. It's not ideal but you have higher expectations of how your relationship should be than she has. There is no right or wrong. Step back.

I haven't contacted her since all those years ago so that is a pointless statement to make.

• she still hasn't made amends with us and we haven't heard from her - Even the kids and MIL birthday and will stay away until she knows we have left
• she should be making effort for at least her husbands sake if not anyone else's?
• she should message me or husband or turn up at least to special occasions now

You seem to be expecting her to contact you. Why haven't you made any effort after your apology?

Are you annoyed because she/they don't your children presents?

You called her an "ugly fat cow"?! Yes that was pretty personal!

Just don't think about it any more. You're related by marriage. It's not really a big deal if you don't get on. You've apologised, she doesn't want to accept it. You've both got other people to focus on instead of each other.

She is part of the family, she just assessed your behavioural choices and doesn’t want to bother with you. Fair enough. I would not have anything to do with a grown woman who called me an ‘UGLY FAT COW’ , and nah, I have never gobbed off to someone as a grown adult, stop acting like your trash behaviour is normal or acceptable, you’re just humiliating yourself even more.

She has made it clear she doesn't want to be involved with you, but does mix with other family members.

She doesn't need to like you or mix with you. She doesn't need to reach out. Leave her alone and move on.

You've shown her that when you were annoyed (however fairly or unfairly), your reponse was to fling around personal insults. If I saw that behaviour in anyone, whoever it was directed against (even if I didn't like them), I'd avoid the person who behaves like this.

If the girlfriend didn't like the response then she shouldn't have got involved in something which at that stage of their relationship was none of her business. I can't stand this kind of person, if you can't stand the heat keep out of the kitchen.

I do love how so many people here are making out like they've never said anything mean in the heat of moment.

Honestly since I left primary school I have not ever insulted anyone on a personal level like this and I have not said anyone is a 'fat ugly cow'. I think you are probably in a minority in doing such a thing as an adult. It's good that you've got help for your problem and that you feel more in control of yourself now. It sounds like you are struggling to accept that the damage can't be undone so perhaps that's something else to talk through with a professional?

YABU.

You can't say whatever awful things you want to people and then insist they forgive you.

it is okay for someone to slate me but I'm 100% wrong on my own, no one else because I reacted to that and apologised?

Your SIL did not attack you personally. You responded very aggressively and hurtfully and you need to take responsibility for that. It's not OK to expect her to shoulder any percentage of the blame for your behaviour.

I think the difference here is that she slated your behaviour by saying you were a mean cow and orchestrating the situation. You in turn then didn't just say 'hey gf, this has nothing to do with you right now'. You instead we but straight into personal attack mode calling her an ugly fat cow, then had to go to anger management.
You've apologised which is great, but you've said that in the apology she didn't have to reply and now you're getting annoyed she's taking you up in that choice.

I'd avoid you as well. She's not making a scene. Just not drama orientated.

The lesson here for us all I suppose is that if the best you can come up with in an unnecessary argument you are losing is to hurl a primary school level insult then one cannot and should not be surprised when a grown up doesn't favour your company.

Apologies, while necessary, don't actually fix things. I hate it when people apologise, but don't have the empathy to realise that it doesn't take away the hurt

The fact that you even said those things to her in the first place, have made her aware of who you really are. I wouldn't forget that either.
You might know that you've made progress with your temper, but she doesn't. And she's understandably not in a hurry to find out.

She's doing the sensible thing and keeping out of your way, so that things don't flare up again.

I do love how so many people here are making out like they've never said anything mean in the heat of moment.

Another person here who has never said anything like that to anyone. Not even at school.

My stepdad once did something really bad to my Bil (sisters dh). He took a joke the wrong way and offered my bil to go outside to sort it out and it took my dh to physically stop stepdad punching my Bil.

Stepdad had apologised before the night was out and said he'd drunk too much and had something on his mind. My bil hasn't ever fully forgiven him and as a result bil limits the amount of time he's around him.

His wife (my sister) and her family fully support him in that choice and do not expect him to alter his boundaries. Bil is not excluding himself family, he's not holding a grudge, he's just putting boundaries in place to make sure my stepdad doesn't ever repeat what he did, my stepdad also respects and understands why and keeps himself out of the way during bils visits.

If my mil treat me the way my stepdad treat his son in law I'd be not returning to her house either.

lots of judging on my personality based on one comment I made when upset and not much else
I'm judging you on your own words and actions OP, not one single comment. I'm quite sure I'm not the only one. You sound quite unpleasant based on your very own posts and insinuations.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but your SIL believed and repeated things your IL/BIL had said about you. She was newish to the family and automatically took the word of multiple people who had the potential of being a part of her life for a long time. You thought she had no right because she was 'new' and targeted her as such (rather than the real source) in quite a vile way.
She now does not want to be around you so, without drama, she quietly avoids you. This pisses you off because you said 'sorry'? As you are 'more family' than she is you think she should be acting as you want her to?
Why should she see you 'for your BIL's sake' when you were so awful? And your admission that you needed anger managment counselling is at odds with your just calling her what you did. Do you know your BIL is unhappy with the situation? Your ILs? Is there more family gossip to confirm?
Let it be OP. Your SIL quite understandable doesn't like you. She owes you nothing and I'd be surprised if the rest of the family didn't understand and accept/support her position.

*Apologies, while necessary, don't actually fix things. I hate it when people apologise, but don't have the empathy to realise that it doesn't take away the hurt

The fact that you even said those things to her in the first place, have made her aware of who you really are. I wouldn't forget that either*

I agree, this is a classic case of an apology doesn't make things better or go away, which is what OP seems to think.
An apology is easily given when someone knows they have messed up & wants to change things moving forward. It may be sincere if someone has genuinely reflected on their behaviour & realised how wrong & hurtful it was, or it may be a primary school kid reaction of saying sorry without reflection or sincerity but just because they know they are in trouble

An apology, however well meant, does not change what happened, does not change SIL's experience that this is how OP can choose to behave towards her if she is angry / upset / drunk / whatever. SIL has seen OP act this way once, thus can conclude OP may act like this again, and opt not to put herself in that situation & give OP that opportunity. OP may think she has changed, and maybe she has, but SIL can't unsee what she has already seen of OP's behaviour so it is entirely her choice whether to forgive & forget or not