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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask if you will be (considering) leaving the UK if Labour/Corbyn get into power?

709 replies

oliwki · 21/11/2019 18:27

If so, where will you be going?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
SinkGirl · 23/11/2019 13:55

*Residents in Portugal for tax purposes are taxed on their worldwide income”

I don’t claim to be an expert in using Portugal as a method of tax avoidance but it seems to me that what you’re saying is incorrect.

But overall, Portuguese taxes are higher than ours, with lower thresholds, and the last four years of a left wing government have been a huge success for their economy. But of course a left wing government would cripple the U.K... right?

to ask if you will be (considering) leaving the UK if Labour/Corbyn get into power?
YouJustDoYou · 23/11/2019 14:46

Residents in Portugal for tax purposes are taxed on their worldwide income

After 183 days. If not resident for 183 days, doesn't apply.

Clavinova · 23/11/2019 14:54

According to Deloitte in 2018, Portugal is the place to go;

Non-Habitual Residents - Portuguese special tax regime
The best tax regime for individuals is in Portugal

"A special tax regime for new residents allows pensioners, high net worth individuals and entrepreneurs to enjoy Portugal’s sunny climate while benefiting from an attractive tax regime. If you have not lived in Portugal in any of the last five tax years, you are planning to retire or you expect to receive interest or dividends, you may benefit from a low tax burden by moving to Portugal."

www2.deloitte.com/pt/en/pages/tax/articles/residentes-nao-habituais.html

Clavinova · 23/11/2019 15:33

Portugal have a socialist government in place right now! You’d flee a left wing government to move to a country with a socialist government?

"Portugal’s socialist miracle? Pull the other one."

"The newly re-elected centre left has presided over austerity and privatisation."

www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/09/portugals-socialist-miracle-pull-the-other-one/

SinkGirl · 23/11/2019 16:20

Oh your source is Spiked? Must be reliable then.

SinkGirl · 23/11/2019 16:25

Top three stories on Spiked right now...

And here’s a charming article written by the current editor of Spiked:
m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/brendan-oneill/jimmy-savile-child-abuse_b_2017326.html

Who are you going to link to next, Breitbart?

to ask if you will be (considering) leaving the UK if Labour/Corbyn get into power?
ArseDarkly · 23/11/2019 16:57

Haven't read all the thread so hopefully i'm not posting something that's already been put on here - wonderful video from the actor Rob Delaney about the importance of the NHS in this election

DangerClose · 23/11/2019 21:55

Portugal’s socialist miracle? Pull the other one

The newly re-elected centre left has presided over austerity and privatisation

LMAO. Your link is just a right-wing magazine known for being extremely loose with the facts, saying literally that "The Financial Times, Der Spiegel, the Atlantic, the New Statesman and many others are wrong, and we are right".

Forgive me if I don't agree.

Xenia · 23/11/2019 22:06

If my tax went up I might - we shall see. I can work anywhere with an internet connection. I pay an awful lot of tax already.

Justanotherlurker · 23/11/2019 22:12

@DangerClose

Playing the man instead of the ball and calling sources is a tired meme now. They are shite sources but still have grain of truth in the reoperting, they are akin to the guardian and independent in spinning stories and only highlighting figures that suit the agenda.

Alsohuman · 23/11/2019 22:15

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Payroll_and_income_tax_by_country.png

Good luck @Xenia.

Alsohuman · 23/11/2019 22:16

they are akin to the guardian and independent in spinning stories and only highlighting figures that suit the agenda

You forgot The Mail and The Telegraph.

Justanotherlurker · 23/11/2019 22:21

If my tax went up I might - we shall see. I can work anywhere with an internet connection. I pay an awful lot of tax already

I know your baiting, but france did face this situation, the 'right wing' ifs that labour cited in heir costings document have come out and said it is economically illiterate, it is just gearing up to be a not true labour government again, fall back on the right wing media meme

DangerClose · 23/11/2019 22:45

Playing the man instead of the ball and calling sources is a tired meme now

Riiiight. If one source, which is well known for publishing complete shite (Spiked has denied climate change in the past), says that every respected news outlet is wrong and they're right, then it's irrelevant to link to them or use what they say in the discussion. If pointing that out is a meme, then I guess I just posted a meme.

Jesus. I've never seen a poster on here who tries so desperately to appear intelligent and achieves so absolutely the opposite.

EntropyRising · 24/11/2019 08:02

Payroll tax, income tax - these things matter but are not the central to high-net worth/investor types.

It's the hostile backdrop to wealth, the arbitrary confiscation of assets (nationalisation, 'inclusive ownership fund'), the reversal of corporate tax relief, changes to dividend and capital gains income, and the like.

Italy and Portugal are indeed more attractive places to incorporate or park your money against the spectre of a Corbyn government, they're both pretty aggressively courting wealth.

EntropyRising · 24/11/2019 08:10

The super-state controls that seem unappealing under usual circumstances would absolutely make a remainer (remainiac, even) out of me should Corbyn form a majority government.

Oliversmumsarmy · 24/11/2019 08:35

Why would that effect us.
Or are you saying because others can’t afford something no one should have it

Absolutely bloody disgusting

Why?

I have lived in terrible poverty and been in a position where I can’t afford something and others can
I wouldn’t say that was disgusting it is just life.

I have spent many years waiting at bus stops in the pouring rain and then more years driving around in cars that my friends describe as looking like the wheels might fall off.

I didn’t think it was disgusting that people drive around in Ferrari’s and Rolls Royce’s.

To me that is an aim.

(Although having tried out a Ferrari I found the seats really uncomfortable and didn’t like being that close to the ground)

I think it is a case of attitude towards others.

If you see someone doing well some people want to tear them down.
How very dare they get something whilst others don’t have anything.

Whilst others want to do well, want to know how they did it and see that it is possible and wish the person good luck.

EntropyRising · 24/11/2019 08:50

@Oliversmumsarmy's husband has an insurance policy covering his cancer treatment, which frees them from the worry of paying for medical treatment. That's how insurance works, it's not 'disgusting'.

This kind of nonsensical language has become the hallmark of the left.

ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether · 24/11/2019 10:18

All those going on about the usual myth of super 'wealth creators' who will all leave the country might want to get hold of a book called "Why we can't afford the rich" by Andrew Sayer blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/book-review-why-we-cant-afford-the-rich-by-andrew-sayer/

The real wealth creators are the small and medium enterprises and low and middle social hierarchical levels - and they're already leaving the country now if they have the option. I only wish I did. In common with lots of pp's I see, if we have any more of the Tories I'll try and relocate to Scotland at least, given that I'm too old now to leave the country.

Clavinova · 24/11/2019 10:38

Your link is just a right-wing magazine known for being extremely loose with the facts

Would you prefer Reuters?

Oct 2019 LISBON (Reuters) - "Portugal’s Socialist Prime Minister Antonio Costa aims to retain power at Sunday’s parliamentary election with a pledge that looks like an unlikely vote-winner for western Europe’s poorest country - no backtracking on tight spending controls."

"As populist governments across the rest of Europe look to ramp up spending amid fears of recession, Costa has campaigned for fiscal discipline to preserve the hard-won results of austerity imposed in the wake of Portugal’s 2011 debt crisis."

“Perhaps it’s best for the austerity not to end completely, or we run the risk of going overboard as happened before the crisis,”

"While Costa’s government declared in 2016 that it had “turned the page on austerity” by reversing some pay cuts and tax hikes imposed by the previous administration, it has since become more frugal. It has refused to raise salaries for teachers and civil servants, while the total tax burden reached a record high 35.4% of GDP in 2018."

"Even with wages largely stuck at pre-crisis levels of almost a decade ago, ordinary people say they have felt improvements lately."

www.reuters.com/article/us-portugal-election-austerity/in-austerity-scarred-portugal-fiscal-discipline-is-a-vote-winner-idUSKBN1WI131

How about a left-wing magazine with very similar thoughts to the right-wing magazine?

The Portuguese Myth

2018 "Portugal’s Socialist-led government looks like an exception to the decline of European social democracy. But its record in fighting austerity is less clear."

"The contradiction is that while Portugal is known for having a left-wing government, it is not meaningfully an “anti-austerity” administration."

"A rhetoric of limiting poverty has come to replace any call to resist the austerity policies being imposed at the European level."

"a new “center-left” in power—one that would not spearhead any serious resistance to the imposition of austerity measures."

"in a climate of slow but steady economic recovery at the European and national level, it allowed the PS [Socialist Party] to use the breathing space to its own advantage" "with the introduction of austerity-lite policies." "At the same time, it was the perfect moment to co-opt the Left into a very difficult situation of supporting a government that would never be meaningfully anti-austerity or adopt the Left’s own demands."

jacobinmag.com/2018/06/portugal-left-bloc-socialist-party-austerity

"I've never seen a poster on here who tries so desperately to appear intelligent and achieves so absolutely the opposite."

How rude.

EntropyRising · 24/11/2019 11:02

^All those going on about the usual myth of super 'wealth creators' who will all leave the country might want to get hold of a book called "Why we can't afford the rich" by Andrew Sayer blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/book-review-why-we-cant-afford-the-rich-by-andrew-sayer/^

That you want us to read a book by a mostly unreconstructed Marxist does kind of lend credence to the theory that there are a lot of Momentum types on the this thread.

SinkGirl · 24/11/2019 13:13

If you see someone doing well some people want to tear them down.
How very dare they get something whilst others don’t have anything.

That’s not it at all. You said that America’s cancer survival rates are better than the UK’s - I pointed out that this is because of a deeply unequal system where those who have money are less likely to die from the same illness. And your response that this is irrelevant to you because you can afford it.

And yes, that attitude is disgusting. This is not waiting for a bus vs driving a Ferrari. What a giant, flaming straw man that is.

WrongKindOfFace · 24/11/2019 13:45

To be fair, many people even with insurance have to meet a deductible, or pay a co pay, or have prescriptions that aren’t covered, or have a cap on cover, or can only access certain in network hospitals or specialists. Having fully comprehensive insurance that covers everything even if you have a pre existing condition is unusual and incredibly fortunate. There is a reason that medical debt is the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the us.

No, the NHS isn’t perfect (but the tories have had nine years to try and fix it) but at least it is free at point of use which removes a large proportion of the financial burden of a health condition.

Oh and US workers aren’t legally entitled to paid leave.

leckford · 24/11/2019 13:51

Had a laugh reading the Sunday Times today, companies that are targets for the proposed communist nationalisation have moved the companies offshore, to places like Switzerland. So if the comrades come after them it will cost a fortune in legal fees. So no ‘free’ broadband then!

Alsohuman · 24/11/2019 15:19

*I've never seen a poster on here who tries so desperately to appear intelligent and achieves so absolutely the opposite."

How rude*

That was actually aimed at Justanotherlurker. And it was absolutely spot on.