I can't watch the leaders debate tonight. I'm too angry.

[ssd]

I'm too angry about brexit. And the effect it'll have on us all. I can see a tory majority happening and it sickens me. I don't know what's happened to ordinary people. They've fell for something that will make their lives worse, sold to them by an elite that has shafted them.

I can't fucking bare it.

I think the reason people think you're being paid is because normally you say the same thing over and over again - although I can't hear you speak - your tone as you speak sounds very shrill. It is very irritating actually.

Would it help if I told you that I find pro-Labour / anti-Tory people saying the same thing over and over again to be both shrill and extremely irritating? I suspect that irritation probably sharpens my own posting style, and for all I know the same thing happens in reverse with posters from the other side.

*As I'm sure has been mentioned til hundreds of times, people being fed up of the status quo had more to do with government policies than the EU. Could you elaborate your point a bit further

What do you mean my point?

I was just stating how people I know who voted leave were feeling at the time.

To them something had to change and it did and for them it was for the better.*

Your point? You say the people you know voted for leave as they were fed up of the status quo. Which bits of it?

And your post makes no sense. Fair play to the unemployed people getting jobs etc but that again is nothing to do with Brexit. On account of the fact that we haven't left the EU yet. How did you draw that conclusion? I'm struggling to follow your thought stream.

Cendrillon - if you find us irritating, why do you post on the Westminsterenders thread? There's no other explanation for you doing that, other than you're trying to interrupt conversation, upset people - or you really think you can change people's mind (and I can assure you that the style that you write in and the information you post is not going to achieve that).

You sound very fed up. I can understand you posting in a place like this but the thread I've just mentioned is a discussion thread in the Brexit forum specifically for people who are not comfortable with the current Tory government. You visit there so regularly. You should give it a miss if it's upsetting you so much.

To those who think Corbyn told the truth regarding voting Remain (he probably didn't), and who don't know why he won't say exactly what his stance is now, as all the other Leaders have, then just look at his voting record on Europe and EU of the last 35 years or so. (link below.)

www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

He's obviously personally a rabid Leaver, but daren't say so and go against the majority of his Party, or even ditch his own principles + take a Remain stance, for fear of pissing off the Labour Remain voters. Weak, out of his depth and no Leader.

I don't vote Labour, but the sooner they get rid of Corbyn + his cohorts the better for UK politics all round. Governance of this country requires a good strong official Opposition, not one whose Leader has the lowest approval ratings ever recorded for Lab Party,( including Foot), + has brought Labour so low that the ECHR are investigating them for racism .

I mostly post there to expose hypocrisy and act as a tiny counterweight to the otherwise 99% stream of anti-Tory stuff on what is by far the most active politics channel on MN. I definitely don’t like the idea that only posts from one small perspective are allowed, which in any case doesn’t apply to any other part of the forum. I keep promising myself I’ll stay away, but that’s the problem with being a political obsessive - the temptation to jump in and stick it to the people who are Being Wrong On The Internet gets too strong sometimes.

It's slightly concerning to see how many people "can't watch" a debate between the PM and the leader of the opposition because they're 'too angry' (or similar).

It's the same as people trying to prevent people with views that conflict with their own from public speaking.

If you have conviction in your own opinions then listening to those that oppose then should reaffirm them. Simply turning your face away because 'the nasty man said things you don't agree with' is, for want of a better word, pathetic.

Cendrillon:

I mostly post there to expose hypocrisy

what hypocrisy?

and act as a tiny counterweight to the otherwise 99% stream of anti-Tory stuff

It's an anti Tory thread.

I definitely don’t like the idea that only posts from one small perspective are allowed

Are you the mumsnet police?

@PBo83 Well said.

I'm aghast at how little actual political.debate there is on this forum, but instead name calling mixed with a huge lack of knowledge of 20/21 century political history,.

5 pages and only about 10 people seem to actually base their argument on fact.

PBo83

I don't think it's hearing people's views that don't match with your own that's making people angry.

I think it's knowing that you're being lied to and hearing loads of soundbites over and over again - and feeling that you've wasted an hour of your life that is making people angry.

I got so angry with Cleverly last night on Newsnight that I nearly put my fist through the screen. I was sitting very close. I've never done anything like that before in my life. But he was spouting lies and nonsense and talking over Emily Maitlis and it was so vile and I wanted to be able to shout at him but couldn't because he was on the other side of the television screen. It raises people's blood pressure. The people running our country are horrible and that is what's making us angry.

Less immigration

I think you'll find that your wonderful Ms Patel is rather vague when asked to confirm that is the case.

But then Tory voters description of the truth tends to be the last headline they read on the Telegraph/Daily Mail *insert other tedious right wing press here.

Are you the mumsnet police?

Are you? You’re the one who seems be be arguing that only one opinion should be allowed on a particular thread. And I thought you wanted a sensible discussion.

And I thought you wanted a sensible discussion.

I would like a sensible discussion, you're right.

It's an anti Tory thread.

So, it's not a debate or discussion then? You're not interested in other opinions, you just want to vent your anger into a echo chamber and wait to be reaffirmed by matching opinions.

I'm not even saying I disagree with you, just that stating it's an 'anti tory' thread makes the whole 'discussion/debate' thing kinda pointless.

Corbyn is personally in favour of Brexit - or was at one time, however most of his party and those who will vote for him are Remainers, therefore he will do all he can to remain. It was the same with Theresa May, whatever anyone thought of her; she was a 'remainer' but was prepared to tow the party line. That's called democracy.

I watched last night's debate and thought Corbyn was the better speaker.

Johnson’s personal opinion on Brexit has changed with the wind, or rather whatever would benefit him most at that moment.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/how-boris-johnson-has-changed-his-views-on-europe

Why the obsession with Corbyn’s personal opinion?

Corbyn is personally in favour of Brexit

@Bluserussian

You might want to fact check that. He voted Remain in 2016, which is easily checked, so you have no reason at all to believe that, other than you've fallen hook line & sinker first the bullshit propaganda 🤷‍♀️

Well I’m voting conservative, our local lady MP is good and gets involved in local issues. I cannot stand Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell. I think they face no chance of getting into government, too extreme and people remember the Labour Party borrowing in the past and destroying the economy, the same will happen if they get their paws in the till.

Could you just read the thread so we don’t have to dispel those myths about the last labour government yet again?

It gets worse - The UK government confirms it has no plans to assess the economic impact of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal with the EU.
Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay said last month he would "expect" an economic impact assessment to be carried out at "some point."
However, the government said there is no "date for an 'economic impact assessment' to take place" in a response to a Freedom of Information request.
Labour MEP Julie Ward, who sent the FOI, accused the government of an "utterly staggering and a complete dereliction of duty."

No, I’ll take one for the team @Deathgrip.

@leckford, the reason the economic situation was so dire was because of that little thing called the global crash in 2008. The Tories have borrowed far more since 2010 than Labour ever did. Here’s a nice chart for you.

www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_analysis

Parker you’d think they’d have learnt from last time they didn’t bother to do them.

Are they lazy or scared I wonder?

My money’s on lazy. Closely followed by stupid.

I fail to understand why people perpetuate myth and speak as if it is fact. In this modern age of information at our finger tips, the truth is easy to find and you dont need a huge IQ to understand it.

Sometimes I wonder about democracy. This thread ... it has made me question whether it really is the best system humanity can come up after 4000 years?

Some of the ridiculous things a group of allegedly intelligent, educated women were coming out with were unbelievable.

Pretty much like on this thread then.