I can't watch the leaders debate tonight. I'm too angry.

[ssd]

I'm too angry about brexit. And the effect it'll have on us all. I can see a tory majority happening and it sickens me. I don't know what's happened to ordinary people. They've fell for something that will make their lives worse, sold to them by an elite that has shafted them.

I can't fucking bare it.

olivers your last post just demonstrates that you have no concept of what leaving the EU means.

This is the basics of leaving the EU without a deal:
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48511379

It would cause unmitigated chaos. Please read it. I don’t think you appreciate the far reaching impact. It’s not a case of just sorting it out later. Every area of our society would be impacted - laws, medications, food, manufacturing, business, borders etc etc.

Not to mention the annual EU contribution to the U.K. which is currently about £9bn - but apparently we don’t have a magic money tree for these things.

And I do not believe that anyone voted to leave with no deal. Because the Leave campaign categorically promised there would a deal (a great deal in fact) and access to the single market.
edition-m.cnn.com/2019/03/09/uk/brexit-promises-gbr-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F

You’re being revisionist.

I didn't watch it because it's too boring and to be honest, I've had enough of seeing their ugly mugs on TV.

I don't need any of them telling me how wonderful they will be if they get in power (you won't, you'll be as shit as all the rest that have gone before) to make up my mind who to vote for, if I do do this time around.

But why would the EU actually give us anything more than we have at the moment?
Corbyn will be asking for completely different things as he has far different priorities than May or Johnson
What timescale is JC thinking of?
I can't remember but he did say, last night

Will the EU let us take more time asking for a worse deal for them?
Corbyn apparently already has a deal in principle with the EU

Then time for a referendum But at least we'll know what we're voting for

Then what happens if there is 52% for this great new deal.Then we leave with the new deal

Will we still have protests about leaving the Eu
No because everyone will have known what they voted for

What if we don’t leave the EU. A minority of people will be happy if we don't leave then the majority will be happy, as the majority will have voted to stay

but the majority will take to the streets. Haha no they won't, remainers have consistently taken to the streets in high numbers but despite all the delays the leavers can't muster more than a couple of people

From the people I know who voted leave they voted to get out without a deal. No one voted for that because it wasn't even a thing, all the leave campaigners said getting a deal would be easy
Then sort it all out later. That's such a horrendous idea,

If we have say 5 years of negotiating deals ahead of us why are we wasting time because Johnson's deal is shit, and if we leave without one we're fucked

We could have been well into it by now if we had started directly after the referendum and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel rather than just getting going yep but you'll have to ask May why her negotiations took so bloody long, maybe it's because "she's a difficult woman"so not the best person for negotiations 🤷‍♀️

ssd, i feel the same.

its unfuckingbearable what we're doing to this country.

olivermumsarmy, i remember your posts from before the referendum because you were so ardently pro brexit you said youd leave the country if remain won.

why do you always pretend you didnt?

"Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Stuck in the middle . . . "

Thanks Bob Dylan, a quote for every eventuality.

Cracks me up when people say there will be riots in the street if we don't leave. Hardly.

Thanks Bob Dylan, a quote for every eventuality.

So why did you quote Gerry Rafferty & Joe Egan?

I had to turn off. I thought they were both appalling. Why is Corbyn so afraid to give us his Brexit opinion

Watched the whole debate but Johnson still didn’t tell us if he knows how many children he has and whether he contributes appropriately, at least in a financial sense, to their upbringing.

So why did you quote Gerry Rafferty & Joe Egan?
🤣

Why is Corbyn so afraid to give us his Brexit opinion

Maybe actually RTFT? This had been discussed at length. His opinion is that the deal on the table is crap (accurate) and no deal is worse (accurate) so he wants to try and negotiate something that’s better for the country, give the public the details of what’s available and ask what they want.

It’s ridiculous that approaching this like a mature and responsible leader leads to name calling, while BJ has bluffed, lied, manipulated and broken the law to try and subvert due process.

There’s lots of cries about Corbyn not being able to negotiate a better deal (why not? You’ve seen Boris debate now) or not wanting to negotiate a better deal - this is completely without basis. All the people saying he’s going to negotiate a deal and than campaign against it - no. He’ll do what he can to negotiate a deal (after the tories have royally pissed of the EU with their nonsense) and then give the public the final say when they have all of the information.

This is so incredibly straight forward, anyone saying otherwise must have an agenda.

Likely that Labour would campaign for Remain in a referendum to stop the damage that has seen Honda, Ford, Dyson, Lyons, Unilever, Airbus, Panasonic, MoneyGram, UBS, P&O, Michelin, AXA, Bentley, Toyota, etc etc cut UK operations/jobs before we’ve even left and thrown SMEs into a panic. When Johnson said F* Business, he wasn’t kidding! Only problem is it’s going to make us all noticeable poorer...but I guess that’s worth if it means I get to be a second class citizen compared to my French colleague who retains all his EU travel, work, and legal rights while living in the U.K. oh, hang on,,,

Thanks to those who've corrected me.

I loved Corbyn’s choice of “present” for Johnson. Their answers to that question highlighted two things about Corbyn and Johnson. Corbyn is able to think on his feet and values “Christian” morality ie, treat others as you would desire they treat you, look out for those less fortunate than yourself etc. By contrast, Johnson cannot think on his feet (jam?) and is, I think most would agree, pretty lacking in said morality.

I think the jam reference was probably intended from the expression “jam tomorrow” which is often used in politics (and elsewhere) to refer to empty promises...

The closing speeches were interesting.
JC was calm and precise with constant reference to the Labour party helping the electorate.
BJ couldn't get past repeatedly referring to "I" and "me."
The man's an egocentric buffoon.

I didn't really see the point of the debate. The faithful will still be faithful no matter what and both sides are claiming victory, but I think we've all lost if we have to choose between that pair. There was no vision, conviction, intelligence, flair or honesty shown by either participant. Worse, Corbyn actually got aggressive towards the audience at one point. Now I don't believe there was anything to jeer at that point (not compared to his blatant lie about Labour racism) but Corbyn's reaction was appalling. He doesn't know how to deal with anyone but the few adorers, as seen again when he ran away from some fella in Scotland the other day. And then there's Johnson who just wanted to waffle lies about Brexit no matter what the question was. Ugh. Surely we have better people to represent us. We can't have worse.

The polls put BJ slighty ahead on what people thought of the debate which seems fair to me.
On Labour's Brexit policy the EU have no different deal they would do with JC other than the 500 page withdrawal agreement Mrs May's team negotiated with a few changes (the big ones on N Ireland) that BJ did - It is available to read on line. It is of course the start of the process - we leave on the basis of that agreement and then negotiate what happens after the transitional period.

JC's position is difficult because a lot of the big steps he wants to take such as taking 10% of shares from companies and aid to industry may well break EU law eg on state aids etc so to get that going I believe we would have to leave [ as the EU respects the rule of law better than the very socialist wing of the Labour party which is current in control of the party]

I agree op, I'm also really angry about Brexit. How anybody could be stupid enough to vote for it is beyond me.
Leave won by -
Lying - Aaron Bank unapologetically admitted this to MPs making it clear he thought Leave voters are thick, don't do facts and are easily led (also said another time my Dominic Cummings).
Cheating - As confirmed my the electoral commission. Ongoing
Foreign interference - Still won't publish the Russian report.

Boris Johnson's 'deal' (that's not even a deal) rips up workers rights, environmental protection and tax avoidance measures to stop billionaires hiding money. It also takes away our rights as EU citizens. And Joe Bloggs cheers it on demanding it's implemented.

I predict that Remain parties/candidates will get more votes overall than Leave parties/candidates but that the Tories will win a majority and push through their Brexit and their 'no deal' Brexit at the end of the transition period.

I think the public are getting wise about Boris with last nights audience laughing at him when he was asked if the truth mattered, and he replied: “Yes, I think it does.” It was obvious the audience disbelieved him.

@Oliversmumsarmy no one wanted to leave without a deal. No one. Because that was not an option in the referendum campaign, so stop talking bollocks first of all.

3 months to renegotiate, 6 months to call a ref.
The EU have always said they’re willing to negotiate if there was large political change. Election is pretty big change.

The rest of your q’s have been answered excellently by pp and I can’t be fucked to keep having to explain these very simple explanations to leavers.

Minor point, but Corbyn was most ungracious about Boris's suggested gift. Gimmicks aside (and it was a light-hearted question), he rather rudely said, "I make my own jam." Wonder if that's how he responds at Christmas?

We can't have worse.

Of course we could have worse than Corbyn. Not sure if you’re lacking in history or imagination.

Boris Johnson will go down in history as the most shambolic disastrous prime minister we’ve had in centuries - he’s the first prime minister to lose his first vote in parliament since the 1780s. Couple that with the proroguation and his “negotiations” - the man is a shambles.

Labour have had worse in the last decade, hence the fact that in the 2017 labour had the biggest vote share they’ve had since 2001, and it was the first time labour gained seats since 1997.

People have very short memories it seems. Labour’s performance in the last GE shocked everyone. They wiped out the tory majority, when the ballots closed the polls were calling a hung parliament, which was unthinkable when you look at where labour started at the beginning of the campaign period.

Corbyn has been an MP for 35 years. His voting record is easily accessible online:
www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/votes

Now take a look at Johnson’s voting record (when he can be arsed to vote):
www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10999/boris_johnson/uxbridge_and_south_ruislip/votes

I’ll never agree with any politician on everything, and some of the descriptors can be misleading when you actually look at the detail of the vote. However, it’s clear which of these men cares about the general public and which doesn’t.

Which of these men should be in charge during a time of high risk to our human rights, workers rights, nhs, economic uncertainty, growing wage gap, growing poverty, growing crime figures, etc?

On Labour's Brexit policy the EU have no different deal they would do with JC other than the 500 page withdrawal agreement Mrs May's team negotiated with a few changes (the big ones on N Ireland) that BJ did

You have absolutely no evidence that this is the case. Why do you believe this?

JC's position is difficult because a lot of the big steps he wants to take such as taking 10% of shares from companies and aid to industry may well break EU law eg on state aids etc so to get that going I believe we would have to leave [ as the EU respects the rule of law better than the very socialist wing of the Labour party which is current in control of the party]

Corbyn does not want to “take” 10% of businesses shares. The policy in question would be companies sharing 10% of their shares with their employees over a 10 year period. It’s not the government taking them. This would tackle a great many things and increase productivity by giving employees a stake in the company for whom they work.

www.ft.com/content/8a70b692-0967-11ea-b2d6-9bf4d1957a67