I can't watch the leaders debate tonight. I'm too angry.

[ssd]

I'm too angry about brexit. And the effect it'll have on us all. I can see a tory majority happening and it sickens me. I don't know what's happened to ordinary people. They've fell for something that will make their lives worse, sold to them by an elite that has shafted them.

I can't fucking bare it.

(Oh, and that’s the most right wing capitalist take on that story imaginable, funnily enough it’s not being presented with any balance anywhere - like most labour policies)

No Corbyn fan here but even Dominic Cummings has openly said the the Tories don't care about ordinary people or the NHS. And yet I bet plenty of 'ordinary people' will still vote for them. The Tories an BJ are openly taking the fucking piss out of you.

Ah, here you go
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/23/labour-private-sector-employee-ownership-plan-john-mcdonnell

Death on the shares, tat is not correct. The FT keeps being told to correct their errors. 10% go into an employee trust. The employees get a maximum of £500 a year. It is nothing like ordinary share ownership. it is state confiscation.

On the withdrawal agreemen - <a class="break-all" href="//twww.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-extension-labour-corbyn-boris-johnson-article-50-latest-a9179371.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">twww.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-extension-labour-corbyn-boris-johnson-article-50-latest-a9179371.html "Asked whether the new treaty struck with Boris Johnson could be reopened during the current extension – which runs until February 2020 – a spokesperson for the European Commission told reporters in Brussels:

"I can only refer you to the European Council decision that was adopted on 29 October to extend Article 50 to 31 January 2020 as the UK requested itself.

"In this decision the European Council, with the agreement of the UK, has made clear that any reopening of the withdrawal agreement is excluded. So this is where we are now.
Read more

No-deal Brexit still possible, EU's Michel Barnier warns

"The extension was granted in order to give the UK more time to ratify the withdrawal agreement that has been negotiated for the past two years.""

@CallmeAngelina I wouldn’t want a pot of BJ’s jam either! The amount of unknown kids he’s got, his sperm must get bloody everywhere.

Brexit is just so bizarre. Before the referendum, even Farage campaigned for a Norway-style deal and Tory Leavers were talking about staying in the single market. Liam Fox apparently expected to make a great trade deal with the EU, the “easiest in human history”. No one was talking about leaving with no deal.

Now every Leaver knew what they were voting for, to leave with no deal. And Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.

I'm just gobsmacked at what is happening. Everything is just so dumbed down and dangerously incompetent. Why are CCHQ getting away with pretending to be a Fact Checking organisation? Who thought this was acceptable? Why are the press chosing gormless goons who know nothing about politics when they interview members of the public? Why aren't Labour accepting they won't get anywhere with JC in charge? It's all smoke and mirrors. These politicians do not give a flying fuck about any of us. I don't know what the end goal is but our standard of living is being chopped down in the background along with our privacy and our rights while we're all looking at the dancing bears.

We do have new EU rules to protect privacy and teh Data Protection Act 2018 to preserve them in the UK after Brexit so legislatively we are moving towards more not fewer privacy rights (it would be the same under the Tories or Labour on that issue).

Labour has returned to the Kinnock days i.e unelectable left wing half of the party which is great news for the Tories.

The leaving with a deal is the draft withdrawal agreement of October - www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration which anyone can read - that is what you get if you vote Conservative next month. It is leaving with a deal. After that whether after that deal or a possible one Labour thinks the EU might give it, both parties then have to negotiate their long term relationship with the EU afer the transitional period is over.

Article 24 of the agreement on my link above is about workers' rights. Labour does keep saying the Tories want to remove workers' rights but that is not Tory policy.

Brexit is bollox and I despise the fact that it gets the time of day. Theres so many other issues we could and should be focusing on, but thanks to that stupid referendum in 2016 (which no one had a clue what they were voting for - suck it up Leavers), everything else has fallen by the wayside. Every question in last nights debate, boris made it a brexit issue, because he has literally fuck all else to try and win over the public. What a prize tosser.

Why are the press chosing gormless goons who know nothing about politics when they interview members of the public?

Because they’re representative of the electorate, sadly.

Alsohuman I really don't want to believe that. I live in a normal working/middle class area and most people are pretty switched on but maybe I'm deluded

Do you really think that @Alsohuman? I always thought they chose dumb people to interview just to get a reaction from the viewer.

Unfortunately I really do think that. I live in a rock solid Tory area where one town council was 100% UKIP at one point. The things I overhear would make your hair curl. I went for lunch with some old school friends recently and spent a lot of it biting my tongue. Some of the ridiculous things a group of allegedly intelligent, educated women were coming out with were unbelievable.

Oh lawwwd. I think I live in a bubble.

@Deathgrip We had a referendum which is advisory, not legally binding, at a time when we had absolutely no idea what Brexit would entail, and based on a leave campaign which blatantly lied. The reason it has been derailed is that the deals available and leaving without a deal would all be demonstrably harmful to the country.
I knew what we were voting for, my mind hasn't changed. Are you saying half the country voted, even though they didn't know what they were voting for? The only thing I can say is we never know how a good an elected PM will be until theve been in power for a term, do we??

I knew what we were voting for, my mind hasn't changed. Are you saying half the country voted, even though they didn't know what they were voting for?

Again, how did you know what you voted for when the Leave campaign told lies about the process (that we would definitely have a deal, Remain in the single market, that money paid to the EU would fund the NHS instead?

How did you know what you were voting for when the government had no idea of the process and the impacts? Did you know more than the government?

Are you saying half the country voted, even though they didn't know what they were voting for?

Yes, except it was nowhere close to “half the country”.

The leaving with a deal is the draft withdrawal agreement of October - www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration which anyone can read - that is what you get if you vote Conservative next month. It is leaving with a deal.

That is not true. There is no guarantee whatsoever that if you vote Tory we will leave with that deal, otherwise we would have already done so.

Why are the press chosing gormless goons who know nothing about politics when they interview members of the public?

Because they’re representative of the electorate, sadly.

I doubt that very much. If a Question Time from my area is anything to go by they are cherry picked for effect & in support of the Tory's. The local community were raging at how unrepresentative of the area the people chosen to be o there were. Also nobody in very large community groups recognised a single one of them. So hardly local people if other local people have never seen any of them before 🤷‍♀️

@ Deathgrip. It was obvious that the EU didn't want us to leave, therefore, the unknown was always going to be, what would the EU do next after we leave, and we still dont know that answer, because we havn't left. US people voted in Trump, only time will tell if their decision was correct, when ever we take a vote, that vote should stand, that is democracy. Until someone comes up with a better idea, that is how this country has always maintained a democracy, and a government voted in by the people. What if we have another referendum, and a large group do not except the outcome?

The special Question Time last night, starring the inimitable Farage, was from Peterborough. I recognised two members of the audience. I realise this may well be because of the unremitting blueness of where I live but I stand by what I say.

Half the country didn’t vote to leave. 37% of the electorate did. An electorate that’s very different now with a huge number of young people becoming eligible to vote and many having died since 2016. It’s a sobering thought that nobody born in this century voted leave - or remain, come to that.

If you leavers knew you were voting for our current political situation, shame on you.

The only thing I can say is we never know how a good an elected PM will be until theve been in power for a term, do we??

Right. And after 5 years, you get to vote again, in case they've been much shitter than they said they would be.

Well, Brexit has been much, MUCH shitter than they said it would be. So when do we get to vote again? Cos it's coming up on 3.5 years already.

Minor point, but Corbyn was most ungracious about Boris's suggested gift. Gimmicks aside (and it was a light-hearted question), he rather rudely said, "I make my own jam." Wonder if that's how he responds at Christmas?

It's a known fact that Corbyn makes jam, why would you give someone jam for Christmas when they make their own 🤷‍♀️ it would be one of the worst presents ever 😂

olivers your last post just demonstrates that you have no concept of what leaving the EU means

Which part of my post indicated that.

I was saying what the friends I know who voted out thought it was all about.

I think the bit in the campaigning about getting a deal before we left fully they thought of as a nice idea but ultimately it shouldn’t hold us up to leave.

For a lot of these people things since the referendum have improved so to them leaving is working.

but the majority will take to the streets. Haha no they won't, remainers have consistently taken to the streets in high numbers but despite all the delays the leavers can't muster more than a couple of people

Why would leavers have taken to the streets when they won.

What exactly would they be protesting for?

Saying that no one voted to leave without a deal is a very sweeping statement that isn’t true.

I know a few people who voted leave and whether it was the right thing or wrong thing not one of them thought that they needed a deal before they left.

The reason we need to know which side JC is on is because it could be argued that if he said he was a Remainer and he presented a deal that was anything less than handing £1000s to each household in the country for the next 100 years then it could be argued his deal is shit and putting it to the country is just a way of making sure we do as he says.

If he announced that he wanted to leave then he would be in line with BJ and what would the reason be to vote for him as opposed to the opposition.

I did note he was silent in the referendum.

A politician who doesn’t have an opinion on one of the biggest things this country is facing should not be a politician

I live in an ordinary working class area too. People are very switched on here and not anything like the stupid people that are so often interviewed on TV.

In my bubble I don't feel despair at all. I also am under the perhaps false impression that the rest of the country is the same. Still don't entirely believe we're being given the true story on what people think from the media ...

Which part of my post indicated that.

The part where you said we should have just left and sorted it out later. I then posted a link explaining why that’s not possible - did you read it?

I think the bit in the campaigning about getting a deal before we left fully they thought of as a nice idea but ultimately it shouldn’t hold us up to leave.

That’s simply not true. Not having a deal was never floated as a hypothetical eventuality, and neither was leaving the single market. Ever. Look at the campaign materials, they’re still online!