AIBU to ditch a group of friends due to their views?

[FriendDilemmas]

I've NC for this.

Three years ago we moved to a new area about 30 miles away from where we used to live. I've never been comfortable making new friends and moving away from my hometown made this even harder.

I met a group of mums at school when DS started in reception this September. None of us knew each other before school which is ideal for me as I've always struggled trying to fit in with established groups (at work, previously at school with older DD). We hit it off and have been out together a few times and it's been great. I have been really lonely and miserable for three years having absolutely no social life or friends that I see regularly, even just for a chat.

Anyway, we all met up at one of their houses (let's call her Steph) this weekend just gone for a meal and a few drinks. We were just chatting casually and Steph brought up Brexit and politics. All three of the girls suddenly turned very nasty (well, seemed that way to me) saying how Brexit needed to be done, the borders needed closing, sick of all the immigrants, Steph's DS is in high school and she said it was like 'spot the white kid' there.

I was beyond shocked. I did not expect them to have these kinds of views and it has never come up before. I respect other people's political views and do enjoy a good debate but these comments were racist and nasty and I'm not sure I can be friends with people like this.

Spoke to DH and although equally shocked, he does not think I should just ditch them based on this. I think he has seen me so depressed and lonely and was so happy I'd found a good group of friends that I got one with that he thinks I should just let it go. But I can't. We have so many other things in common and have such a laugh together and I have literally no other friends, but I'm not sure I can forget this stuff was said.

AIBU? WWYD?

In vino veritas to the PP saying alcohol is an excuse "in wine lies the truth".

Funny when people say racist and do racist things, they are "NOT racist", but the people offended or who call them out on it are the ones at fault because they are "oversensitive". Yes, because apparently noone in this country is racist, and as a black person the underfunded public sector is my fault. Right!

OP, when this sort of talk starts, look around for the ones who fall silent and look stricken. See if anyone catches your eye. Cultivate those who don't join in the ignorant racist talk. You can't be the only one!

'Spot the white kid' is racist. People who are not racist wouldn't even notice (I wouldn't).

Children do need to learn about culture.

I wonder where people live who come on here. Remote villages where hardly anything has changed for yonks?

Cities are better, nobody thinks anything about race in London and we have many cultures. Thank goodness!

Even the odd faith school is not exclusive.

This thread is very funny now. Racism is just ok and if you're against racism then you have been indoctrinated buy university dictators. Time to get the popcorn out and see where that goes down.

I agree. The OP‘s friends are imo racist (or racially prejudiced, but it‘s ultimately the same, isn’t it...?) and ignorant, seeing as brexit will not lead to less non-white kids in that child‘s school (which the OP‘s friends seem to be in favour of)

Anyhow. I‘m white and I‘ve encountered various people that felt comfortable airing their racist opinions around me. And I didn‘t really realise how much of a problem more „casual racism“ (the one hidden behind jokes, snide remarks etc) was when I was a teenager / very young adult tbh. I obviously believed that racism was wrong but I guess I just wasn’t aware of the harm and (even more importantly) the really nasty mindset that lies behind those kinds of comments.

We (white people) may object to racism (we absolutely should!) but it’s very often (not always, obviously) not simply not as existential for us... Which will obviously have an influence of how we respond when we encounter it. And also have an influence on our „tolerance“ of racism / racist people.

It’s actually a subject my DH and I have had quite a few conversations about in regards to sexism...

I must however add, university was one of the places where racism was not precisely uncommon. Not just amongst students but also amongst the faculty. But that is obviously simply my experience. I just find it interesting when certain racists go on about the „damage“ done by universities....

not simply not as existential for us

Woah!

I did not expect the thread to take off like this. Not sure why as it's clearly a very emotive topic. Just catching up with all the replies.

For those saying I am being intolerant of other people's 'views', I don't really see it that way. They were making racist comments that I found offensive and I don't think anyone should have to 'tolerate' racism. They were clearly trying to be 'funny', but I was not laughing. And I agree with PPs saying they probably don't think they are being racist and were just 'having a laugh' which is further proof that they are not the kind of people I want to associate with.

The points mentioned in my OP (being lonely, having no other friends, having been out with them previously and having a great time) is the reason I am faced with this dilemma and why I didn't immediately bin them off. Admittedly, it will be hard for me to do.

Thankyou everyone for contributing though.

BTW, I think there‘s a difference between phasing them out (basically grading them down to „acquaintance-status“) and simply cutting off contact.

Could you join a club? Volunteer? Join a women‘s organisation / society or something similar?

Also the uk is struggling with the nhs and lack of good education ie how can 1 teacher and 1 supply teacher teach 35 pupils in a way they will all get the same knowledge? So we should be able to say enough is enough without being persecuted.

The reason our infrastructure is under stress is through systematic underfunding by successive governments, particularly since 2010. Immigrants are net financial contributors - they pay more in taxes than they claim in any benefits. Not only that, but immigrants on average pay more into the economy via taxation than do native-born Brits.

Our problem isn't one of immigration. It's just that it's useful for the Tories to blame immigrants rather than admit their combination of incompetence and greed is seeing education and healthcare stretched beyond their limits. The right-wing press does everything it can to shore up this view that immigrants and feckless dole scroungers are to blame. More fool you if you believe it.

The NHS would collapse without immigration. My daughter is a ward sister, and is watching the many EU nurses on her ward return to their home countries because of Brexit, often not being replaced. And if it wasn't for doctors from other countries, hospitals would have to close.

The NHS gains substantially more from immigration than immigrants use.

You’ve called me a knuckle dragged? OK...

Tell me, do you think your opinion is morally superior to mine?

“The NHS gains substantially more from immigration than immigrants use.”

Yeah I know. Hey maybe people think it’s unethical to strip poor countries of their doctors and nurses like that? It’s just a thought, but maybe when a country is way poorer than us and it has invested a lot of its resources in its citizens to train its brightest and best to become doctors and nurses and really needs them even more than we do it is a little bit iffy to strip ithat nation of its human talent and human assets? Maybe some people who aren’t completely entitled think that?

If your opinion is racism is a "valid opinion" and a "perfectly okay opinion to have" then yes my opinion is morally superior to yours.

No brainer here. They have revealed their true selves. Don’t prolong/continue this friendship.

@JassyRadlett no religious elements at school at all including nativity. It's a completely secular school

Oh dear. ' strip poor countries of their doctors and nurses'. Poor European countries such as Germany? France? Spain? Yep third world countries, babe.

It's a completely secular school

Sorry - for some reason I assumed you were in England where there are no secular schools, which was my error.

I think yours is assuming that your children are limited and narrow-minded by nature.

“If your opinion is racism is a "valid opinion" and a "perfectly okay opinion to have" then yes my opinion is morally superior to yours.”

There’s the issue right there, some people do believe their opinions are morally superior to other opinions and believe they know what is going on in other people’s heads and hearts. I think it’s best to try not to judge others. Trying to make windows into another’s soul rarely ends well in my experience. But it is why many people can’t just accept others as they are and it’s why I think the OP isn’t going to be able to keep their friends and I think that is sad.

I agree with you that racism is wrong but I think we are sometimes far too quick to assume that people are racist (I was called names after one post). Britain is the least racist country I have ever been to, I’ve seen what real racism actually looks like in other parts of the world; it is horrible but very few British people are actually racist. We are however very sensitive and I believe we are often too quick to judge.

Brexit is just a matter of political opinion and in and of itself has nothing to do with racism. Brexit is not right or wrong, but it absolutely will be happening because the country voted for it so the MPs that tried to stop it after voting to hold the referendum will soon be getting replaced at the ballot box I’m sure. I have noticed that many people seem to see Brexit as a moral issue and therefore can’t seem to accept that a democratic vote didn’t go their way and can’t the people who voted for it. People seeing Brexit as a moral issue and attributing racism to Brexit voters is causing a lot of problems in this country and it’s pretty much impossible to be friends with someone if you believe they are morally inferior to you.

“Poor European countries such as Germany? France? Spain?”

Nope, those are wealthy developed countries. But we absolutely do take doctors and nurses from countries that are far less wealthy than the U.K. and we absolutely do benefit from doing that, to the detriment of some of the countries we hire these skilled people from. And there is a perfectly rational and logical argument that can be made for that being wrong. To say that just because the U.K. benefits from something we should do it will sound incredibly entitled to a lot of people.

There’s the issue right there, some people do believe their opinions are morally superior to other opinions and believe they know what is going on in other people’s heads and hearts.

The real issue is this dominant narrative some people have got hold of that falsely tells them that all opinions have equal weight and value, regardless of logic, evidence or ethics.

‘I think it’s ok for men to hit their wives’ is an opinion some (increasingly few) people hold. ‘Involuntary celibacy is the fault of women who refuse to have sex with men, and therefore I am justified in demonising and potentially targeting women for harm’ is an opinion that some people hold. It is hard to argue that either has equal moral value to ‘don’t hurt other people’ or ‘treat people with respect, and everyone has the right to decide who they have sex with.’

These are extreme cases, but the internet is flooded with whines of ‘we’ll that’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it!’ when someone has been spouting demonstrably false or morally questionable bullshit and had it pointed out to them.

Yep. People are entitled to their opinions. But not all opinions are equally worthy of respect. Racist opinions certainly are not.

“Yep. People are entitled to their opinions. But not all opinions are equally worthy of respect.”

Well I’d agree with you there but we live in a country where moral and cultural relativism/postmodernism is almost the norm and has been becoming more and more dominant since the 1960’s so I’m not sure if most people will agree with you or not.

The point I was trying to make, although I’ve obviously made it badly because I seem to be misunderstood and being called a knuckle-dragger is that I think the OP shouldn’t assume just because her friends just want Brexit done that they are racist or that racism is what is in their hearts and minds. But the real question is do they consider their opinions to be morally superior ones. If so i think the OP is probably one of the many anti-Brexit bigots I have come across (by bigot I just mean someone who is intolerant of opinions other than their own) and is just looking for validation for ditching their friends.

“Maybe you're outraged by or scared of people who think the Royal Family are a bunch of parasitic cunts who ought to be pensioned off and not given another penny of our taxes.” - that’s lovely. I’m going to assume you’re voting labour then? ;)

No not outraged at all. Not an opinion I share in the slightest mind you, but a perfectly valid opinion to hold nevertheless. And certainly not something I’d ever want to end a friendship over.

Yanbu. I delete anyone from my life if they have bigotted views and express them in front of me. Life is too short to surround myself with people who don't share similar morals and ethics.

“JassyRadlett

There’s the issue right there, some people do believe their opinions are morally superior to other opinions and believe they know what is going on in other people’s heads and hearts.

The real issue is this dominant narrative some people have got hold of that falsely tells them that all opinions have equal weight and value, regardless of logic, evidence or ethics.“

I think it’s called post-modernism, cultural relativism or moral relativism. I think you’d need to thank the 1960’s left for the narratives that are dominant now...

I think it’s called post-modernism, cultural relativism or moral relativism. I think you’d need to thank the 1960’s left for the narratives that are dominant now...

It is none of those things. But nice try.

“flyingspaghettimonster

Yanbu. I delete anyone from my life if they have bigotted views and express them in front of me. Life is too short to surround myself with people who don't share similar morals and ethics.”

I used to be in a cult like that. It’s called the ‘Plymouth Brethren’, were we not to be yoked together with unbelievers. We knew that everything we thought was right and everyone else was wrong, about absolutely everything.