AIBU to ditch a group of friends due to their views?

[FriendDilemmas]

I've NC for this.

Three years ago we moved to a new area about 30 miles away from where we used to live. I've never been comfortable making new friends and moving away from my hometown made this even harder.

I met a group of mums at school when DS started in reception this September. None of us knew each other before school which is ideal for me as I've always struggled trying to fit in with established groups (at work, previously at school with older DD). We hit it off and have been out together a few times and it's been great. I have been really lonely and miserable for three years having absolutely no social life or friends that I see regularly, even just for a chat.

Anyway, we all met up at one of their houses (let's call her Steph) this weekend just gone for a meal and a few drinks. We were just chatting casually and Steph brought up Brexit and politics. All three of the girls suddenly turned very nasty (well, seemed that way to me) saying how Brexit needed to be done, the borders needed closing, sick of all the immigrants, Steph's DS is in high school and she said it was like 'spot the white kid' there.

I was beyond shocked. I did not expect them to have these kinds of views and it has never come up before. I respect other people's political views and do enjoy a good debate but these comments were racist and nasty and I'm not sure I can be friends with people like this.

Spoke to DH and although equally shocked, he does not think I should just ditch them based on this. I think he has seen me so depressed and lonely and was so happy I'd found a good group of friends that I got one with that he thinks I should just let it go. But I can't. We have so many other things in common and have such a laugh together and I have literally no other friends, but I'm not sure I can forget this stuff was said.

AIBU? WWYD?

[Beveren]

So on the while perhaps just better to avoid political subjects with these people because you disagree with them ?

But you can't avoid it, can you? People who are inherently racist cannot help but introduce their racism into everyday life. That "Spot the white kids" comment is exactly the sort of comment many racist people would simply mention in passing, e.g. as part of general chat whilst walking past a school. If you think you are inherently superior to other people purely because their skin is a different colour, you're not going to restrict comments based on that to occasions when you're actively having a political discussion.

[ReanimatedSGB]

At the risk of total derail, it looks like we might be about to get schools where DC don't have to be force-fed superstition on a daily basis. Some actual good news...

[Autumntoowet]

@Gonetoget
I am not denying that happens in the UK, but Spain as a whole can’t compare.
Looking at the country’s economy overall, Spain is not the same. There isn’t a benefit system there and it is hard to compare.
But it not like France and Germany.
Also look at the minimum wage there and unemployment rate.
The economist did a good study
fullfact.org/economy/regional-inequality-figures-misleading/

[CaptainMyCaptain]

I haven't read the thread but I wouldn't want to be friends with these people.

[Gonetoget]

Autumn, What you have said about Spain can be equally applied to the UK. I live in a part of the UK with some of the most deprived wards in Europe.

[QueenBlueberries]

Autumn, thanks for the lecture but By GDP Spain is around 30th richest country in the world, by comparison theUK is around 25th. So all this shows is that a) you don’t know how to use Google b) your ignorance shows and c) you’ve never been to a poor country.

[Autumntoowet]

Poor European countries such as Germany? France? Spain?”

Nope, those are wealthy developed countries.

Those that think Spain is a wealthy country might have only been to touristic areas or must not be Spanish.
It is a developed country. But it is not wealthy.
Some areas are wealthy and some chunks of it are a completely different story and unemployment rates are shocking. People with degrees and masters are begging for a job in retail and lots of young people leave straight away.

I just thought I would mention.

[brassbrass]

Just phase them out without any announcement. School life is tricky enough without added drama. Be the grown up and gradually be less available. They're not your people. Hopefully you'll find like minded friends.

[SmileyGiraffe]

I've binned friends and family who have said they voted leave. I dont need people who I fundamentally disagree with in my life

[JassyRadlett]

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree - I think there are benefits in both, particularly where schools are more monocultural because of religious or social selection.

(I think we will also have to agree to disagree over whether overt racism and hostility to immigrants is the result of ‘not being allowed’ to discuss immigration sensibly - as an immigrant who has lived here for many many years there has been no shift in that time in the way people jump through hoops to assure me that when they are moaning about immigrants they don’t mean people like me, because I am white and English is my first language. They have always been very clear that their issue is skin colour and talking Foreign.)

[coolwalking]

@JassyRadlett they aren't interested in being 'taught' about other cultures. They're learn that from playing and spending time with their friends from other backgrounds. I feel it's too forced on the kids in a classroom environment and by singling kids out it highlights differences.

There's a way to bring people from all backgrounds together by showing what we have in common first. Maybe not explainingn myself very well sorry!

[JassyRadlett]

as I'm not religious I am very happy to send my child to a secular school. There is a good mix of children from all backgrounds. It's just religion is not taught or practised there.

I wish I had the option! But unfortunately there are no truly secular schools in England under law, and my kids were unfortunately allocated a CofE school - no ‘choice’ where I live.

I’m confused though - you say your kids mix with children from all background but objected to them learning about other cultures, or said they weren’t interested? I find that totally surprising.

[KenDodd]

@Peoplenstuff

Brexit is just a matter of political opinion and in and of itself has nothing to do with racism

Most (not all) people I know, in real life, who voted Leave absolutely are racist and their vote was informed solely by racism, nothing else. Would you describe somebody saying 'they (immigrants) should all be rounded up and fuck off home' as a racist view or a political opinion? Sadly I think these days it's both.

but very few British people are actually racist.

I would also dispute this. For example, I'm white British, I would never describe myself as 'not racist' I try my very best not to be racist (or sexist) but racism is ingrained in our society, even if we don't see it, as is sexism, it would be very naive to think these views have left me contaminated.

[coolwalking]

@JassyRadlett as I'm not religious I am very happy to send my child to a secular school. There is a good mix of children from all backgrounds. It's just religion is not taught or practised there.

As a gay person, I am wary of religion and the sentiments of those who believe we are disgusting. I want to be the one to explain to my child about religions and what they mean to some people.

OP- I think you're completely right to question and distance yourself from these people. Like I've stated previously, the immigration issue has led to people coming out with racist views.

[monkeyplanet]

@Peoplenstuff

I have not spoken about BREXIT or Brexiters at all. That is a political issue.

You expressed in a previous post that the racist comments OP expressed were an opinion and just a political opinion. No that is wrong. Racism IS not an opinion. I'm a black woman. I experience racism everyday of my life living in this country. People say and do racist things and then insist they are not racist, I am the one with the problem for pointing out and refusing to accept racist behaviour and comments. I find it telling when I am the target of abuse (yes racism is abuse), that people will rush to defend the abuser and blame me the victim for being abused and insist Britain is not a racist country and I must go back where I came from. Where? The mean streets of Surrey? WTF? RACISM IS NOT AN OPINION. I will continue to say that. It is not okay. It is IMMORAL and DISGUSTING. Why are the people who are not the target of the abuse always keen to deny and protest against those who are actually living through the experience?

[JassyRadlett]

I used to be in a cult like that. It’s called the ‘Plymouth Brethren’, were we not to be yoked together with unbelievers. We knew that everything we thought was right and everyone else was wrong, about absolutely everything.

Yes, absolutely. ‘I don’t want to hang out with people who are openly bigoted’ is absolutely identical to ‘I only want to associate with people who think exactly the same as I do.’

Yes. Absolutely. Not a fag paper between those two things.

[JassyRadlett]

OP shouldn’t assume just because her friends just want Brexit done that they are racist or that racism is what is in their hearts and minds.

Lucky OP isn’t doing that then, isn’t it? I wonder what the motivation to misrepresent is here....

[Peoplenstuff]

“flyingspaghettimonster

Yanbu. I delete anyone from my life if they have bigotted views and express them in front of me. Life is too short to surround myself with people who don't share similar morals and ethics.”

I used to be in a cult like that. It’s called the ‘Plymouth Brethren’, were we not to be yoked together with unbelievers. We knew that everything we thought was right and everyone else was wrong, about absolutely everything.

[JassyRadlett]

I think it’s called post-modernism, cultural relativism or moral relativism. I think you’d need to thank the 1960’s left for the narratives that are dominant now...

It is none of those things. But nice try.

[Peoplenstuff]

“JassyRadlett

There’s the issue right there, some people do believe their opinions are morally superior to other opinions and believe they know what is going on in other people’s heads and hearts.

The real issue is this dominant narrative some people have got hold of that falsely tells them that all opinions have equal weight and value, regardless of logic, evidence or ethics.“

I think it’s called post-modernism, cultural relativism or moral relativism. I think you’d need to thank the 1960’s left for the narratives that are dominant now...

[flyingspaghettimonster]

Yanbu. I delete anyone from my life if they have bigotted views and express them in front of me. Life is too short to surround myself with people who don't share similar morals and ethics.

[Peoplenstuff]

“Maybe you're outraged by or scared of people who think the Royal Family are a bunch of parasitic cunts who ought to be pensioned off and not given another penny of our taxes.” - that’s lovely. I’m going to assume you’re voting labour then? ;)

No not outraged at all. Not an opinion I share in the slightest mind you, but a perfectly valid opinion to hold nevertheless. And certainly not something I’d ever want to end a friendship over.

[Peoplenstuff]

“Yep. People are entitled to their opinions. But not all opinions are equally worthy of respect.”

Well I’d agree with you there but we live in a country where moral and cultural relativism/postmodernism is almost the norm and has been becoming more and more dominant since the 1960’s so I’m not sure if most people will agree with you or not.

The point I was trying to make, although I’ve obviously made it badly because I seem to be misunderstood and being called a knuckle-dragger is that I think the OP shouldn’t assume just because her friends just want Brexit done that they are racist or that racism is what is in their hearts and minds. But the real question is do they consider their opinions to be morally superior ones. If so i think the OP is probably one of the many anti-Brexit bigots I have come across (by bigot I just mean someone who is intolerant of opinions other than their own) and is just looking for validation for ditching their friends.

[JassyRadlett]

There’s the issue right there, some people do believe their opinions are morally superior to other opinions and believe they know what is going on in other people’s heads and hearts.

The real issue is this dominant narrative some people have got hold of that falsely tells them that all opinions have equal weight and value, regardless of logic, evidence or ethics.

‘I think it’s ok for men to hit their wives’ is an opinion some (increasingly few) people hold. ‘Involuntary celibacy is the fault of women who refuse to have sex with men, and therefore I am justified in demonising and potentially targeting women for harm’ is an opinion that some people hold. It is hard to argue that either has equal moral value to ‘don’t hurt other people’ or ‘treat people with respect, and everyone has the right to decide who they have sex with.’

These are extreme cases, but the internet is flooded with whines of ‘we’ll that’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it!’ when someone has been spouting demonstrably false or morally questionable bullshit and had it pointed out to them.

Yep. People are entitled to their opinions. But not all opinions are equally worthy of respect. Racist opinions certainly are not.

[Peoplenstuff]

“Poor European countries such as Germany? France? Spain?”

Nope, those are wealthy developed countries. But we absolutely do take doctors and nurses from countries that are far less wealthy than the U.K. and we absolutely do benefit from doing that, to the detriment of some of the countries we hire these skilled people from. And there is a perfectly rational and logical argument that can be made for that being wrong. To say that just because the U.K. benefits from something we should do it will sound incredibly entitled to a lot of people.