To not want to contribute to trainees' meals.

[MonaLisaDoesntSmile]

I do realise it's petty, but have had a bad day, so thought may as well vent somewhere.

My company usually gets a couple of trainees every year for a couple of months- we have some sort of agreement with universities who send us students who need to do a placement as a part of their degree, or who just look for work experience. These are paid, not sure about the amount, definitely not anything like a regular salary, but they also get limited responsibilities and workload as most work PT. Usually they are young-ish people in the last year of their degrees. They are then attached to one or possibly two, occcasionally three teams, depending on what they need for their course.

Every year we go for a Christmas meal with my office. Some time ago one of my colleagues proposed we chip in to cover for the meal(s) of trainee(s) if any are placed on our team, and of course they get invited to come to the dinner and it became a bit of a tradition. It's never been an issue as they have been some really nice, helpful people and not earning much, so no one objected.

This year we have two trainees. They are both mature students, and both a lot better off than anyone on the team really except maybe for the team leader. Both are doing the degree because they seemed bored with their previous jobs, which in itself is not an issue, and both have high earning husbands. We're a bit strapped for cash at home at the moment, and I don't really want to pay for a meal for someone who, well, does not really struggle financially unlike some of our previous trainees. Plus, they are not actually really nice, don't want to get in a lot of detail but again, don't really feel like paying for a meal for someone who has been unpleasant and patronising. I feel I probably should mention it to our team lead who organised this years meal, not to look awkward on the day, although it's probably going to be awkward anyways as she seems to get on pretty well with them :/

I think you need to have a chat with the manager/team & say you think it’s time to stop the tradition as it’s making the meal unaffordable for you. If that means you all decide to go somewhere cheaper so that it’s more affordable for trainees - fine. If you stick with more upmarket & the trainees don’t want to spend that amount on dinner with a team that they’ll have left in a few months - also fine.

And if next year you have lovely but poor trainees..... well, worry about it then!

How can you say these women are “very well established in life” because they have husbands with incomes? That’s old fashioned. Just because they have a husband who works, does not mean that they have had any career or professional life at all.

Did you read the OP's posts about overhearing conversations between the two trainees?

You never know the full extent of someone else's finance (there are enough posts on here to show high earning husband doesn't always mean the wife gets spending money) so I wouldn't bring that into it, or how much you like them, or the quality of their work or attitude (if that's an issue it should be brought up in work).

Its absolutely fine though to have a quiet word with the organiser and say you feel awkward but you really can only afford x this year for the christmas do and that's in total and ask them what they want to do. It may be you all just go somewhere cheaper or dont pay as much towards the trainees or something

Whoever started this 'tradition' should pay all of it, I'm assuming in this case it's your team leader. You shouldn't feel obliged to subsidise for a trainee.

@OlderthenYoungerNow OP said there are two trainees - so a small team of 4.

OP I hear you, I really do. I don't think you're being unreasonable not to want to pay, and I know you wouldn't dream of telling your manager that the fact that you don't like them is anything to do with it. I'd bloody hate it if a manager, earning more than me, decided that I was paying for somebody else's meal without even asking me!

Where is the company, the ones wi actually recruit and pay these trainees in all of this? If the trainees should have a free meal, it should be up to the company to pay for it! Paying you (for your job), you losing some of that money to tax, and expecting you to then pay for the trainees is a bloody bizarre thing if your stop and think about it!

I think I'd go to manager and ask for a quiet word. Say "I'm feeling a bit awkward and I hope you don't mind me raising it, is just that money is tight for me and I'd struggle to pay for my meal plus contribute towards the trainees' meals this year I suspect other members of the team are feeling the pinch too. Do you think there is another way around it this year? Would it be reasonable to end the tradition, or ask the company pay for their meals? I'm happy to arrange a collection for a bunch of flowers and box of chocs from everybody, that way we can show appreciation at whatever everybody can afford. What do you think?"

How do your colleagues feel about this? It might be easier to deal with if a couple of others are saying the same thing and it doesn't look like it is something personal between you and these particular trainees. I would be inclined to approach it solely from the financial perspective and to say that you want to stop the tradition altogether. Leave personalities and spouses incomes out of it.
My current workplace used to have a tradition that the most senior tier of staff all contributed to some pretty generous Christmas gifts for their assistants. Back when it started, the department was apparently very small, with around 4 seniors and 4 assistants but times change, and by the time I joined I was the 7th senior, but there were more assistants and different grades of staff had been added meaning that the departmental Christmas list now had about 30 people on it. Plus there was another group of staff who we also worked with but didn't get the presents and the whole thing was very inequitable really. I went along with it for the first year I was there but the next year I spoke to a couple of my colleagues and we jointly suggested we just stopped the whole thing. Of course a few people were horrified but most agreed that it had all got a bit out of hand - including the recipients.
I wouldn't have had the nerve to challenge the status quo all on my own, but knowing that others felt the same made it a lot easier. I would try to subtly canvass the opinions of a couple others and if you get some support talk to your boss.

Yanbu. You paid in the past because the trainees didn't have much money. It doesn't make sense to now be paying for the meals of well off people with rich husbands.

I've been in a similar position... On both sides of the situation...

If its a work 'treat', they /company /boss should pay..

Bugger all this 'being professional'... By giving your money away to a grim colleague..

Anything else... YOUR contribution or not should be down to your personal discretion.

I've contributed to treating impoverished student interns... They were uniformly nice to be around and helpful.

A couple of the more mature interns... Think 40s, we were quite upfront(they'd heard we'd 'treated' students to dinner .. They had been open about their financial situation (well off),,, we said usually we fund interns, but as you're not standard interns we'll all go dutch!? We all had a fine time..

Different contexts...

The rule should be.... It's our money so we choose if we pay for interns' christmas meals... Anything else smacks of big brother...

So, when I was a poorly paid intern... At the end of 3 months full time placement both bosses took me out... I offered to pay... They insisted on paying as it was their 'thank you' to me!

*As opposed to all the RIGHTEOUS & WORTHY reasons people do a degree, eh?

Christ, you are a real judgey pants, aren't you?*

Get a grip. She was explaining it's not their first rodeo. They're not starting out in life with little experience or cash and likely don't need to be subsidised.

If you can't afford it op then don't do it. It's not ageism fgs. Christ that gets thrown around too much on here.

I would go with telling your team leader you cannot afford it this year and maybe not going forward. Ask if it is possible to forgo the tradition this year as the interns are mature students with access to funds rather than struggling students. If the team leader refuses, you will have to duck out. Maybe other colleagues will follow suit.

You can’t make it about not liking them though because that would be almost as unprofessional as being forced to pay in the first place..... not that your team leader will see it that way.

I’d mention it to the manager and say you don’t want to pay. I don’t think it’s a big deal not to want to pay. Have you asked your colleagues?

It sucks to be in a low paid job where you have to pay for your own Xmas meal. When I worked full time in the Civil service, I could not afford it, most filing clerks and front line staff were in that position. Forget about them being unpleasant. While it is nice to treat people who struggle and make your work easier, you did not give them the placement and employers should not expect or hope that you will pay for them.

Suggest that you drop the tradition but let it go if it doesn't go down well.
It's not worth making it a big deal but you might find that the others are relieved that you suggest it.

I would tell the manager you can't afford it this year, and leave her to it. It is pretty cheeky imo for a manager to tell the team how much they HAVE to chip in on the actual night without notice anyway. She can pay the extra for your share and you can always do a quick drink with them beforehand if you want to.

@ReanimatedSGB - you're right, their financial stuff is not of my business, I didn't want to look into their wallets really. We have people from all walks of life in the company, I imagine some really well off and some not, but you would not know because no one really talks about it. Those two do. It keeps on creeping up. So while it was not my business, now I know a lot about their spending whether I wanted to or not :)

@jade9390 The difference here is that they CAN afford it. They are not struggling students, beginners, or lets say SAHMs who try to retrain after 15 odd years of not working. They both left very well paid jobs after working their way up quite high. It's a drastically different situation to lets say our previous trainees, when the 'tradition' made more sense.

@IamtheDevilsAvocado- I have been on boths sides as well, in a way. My first manager would buy each of the team a bottle of wine at the end of the year. Then one year he has a baby and he didn't, but no one moaned.
@StrictlyNameChangin The company is nowhere in here, as it is an internal department meal. We do not have a big company meal, so it is all privately organised by us for us as a team. So the meal payment is really between the couple of us.

To people aksing how I know about their financial situation- we all happen to know as it is something they refer to directly or indirectly quite often. Not something anyone ever asked. I don'd judge their financial needs just by looking at their clothes lets say, that would be daft.

The age thing was only mentioned to emphasise the fact their circumstances are different from our previous trainees. They have had established careers in another field and experience to go with it, although not really related to what we do now. One of them is only a couple of years older than me, so I can hardly discriminate her because of age. Their past experience was actually what contributed to the unpleasant atmosphere, as they are clearly unhappy they are not 'training' at a much higher level, despite not necessarily having the knowledge as to what needs to be done (some of their skills are transferrable, but lots to catch up on at the same time). So in their eyes what we ask them to do is below them, although in reality the stuff is very much relevant.

One of my other colleagues recently had a baby, I know he was planning to do what some members here suggested, which is to skip the meal altogether because of the costs, but the additional payment was also something he considered as well. As for the other people I am not sure, but I presume if the two uf us drop out, that would leave the remaining ones with an even bigger bill, which I am not sure they will be very happy about.

Thank you to all for replying, it's true I kind of made up my mind before I posted and was prepared to be told both ways. I suppose I was more wanting to know how people would go on about withdrawing from the tradition.

What if these interns are returning to work after having children? They may have had a £50k job before children (BC) but we all know that due to the mother penalty you can’t get that and are lucky to get an entry level job after an absence from working to raise children. So women are forced to go back to school and get new degrees to make their cv current.
Now to add insult to injury you don’t want to treat them like other interns because they’re 40something women. So what if they want remind you they’re not useless trophy wives and had a life before children. So what if their husbands careers took off while they were home with children.
Too, indo not understand if the meal is £30 why your contribution would be £20. Are there three interns for every two staff members? Is it really worth complaining about £20? Many places do gift exchanges and that’s what you’d spend there.

Sorry cross posted. I see you know they aren’t returning to workforce. I understand better where you are coming from. Apologies xx

What if these interns are returning to work after having children?

So what?

How does that in any way mean the OP should spend money on them she doesn’t want to? Their financial position is not her problem. She’s just a colleague, not their boss. Even if they were destitute she wouldn’t have any obligation to pay.

Jeez you begin to see on these posts why there are so many CF about, the amount of mugs there are happy to bankroll them and stump ip their hard earned cash without question. With such people about it’s no wonder CF try it on.

As for the other people I am not sure, but I presume if the two uf us drop out, that would leave the remaining ones with an even bigger bill, which I am not sure they will be very happy about.

To be blunt, that’s their issue. So long as you are paid up with whatever non-returnable deposits are required to hold the table, it’s part and parcel of Christmas meals that some people who say they’ll go when it’s first arranged will drop out nearer the time. If they’re happy paying for the trainees, they’ll pay. If not, they’ll raise it themselves. Don’t feel you have to martyr yourself for their sake.

I was predicting my “don’t go” response as much on the likelihood of actually having an enjoyable night out if two people you don’t like are part of your small team as on the financials. As it stands you have many options:

1. Don’t go.
2. Speak to a couple of colleagues about their views on ending the tradition as money is getting tighter these days for everyone, and make a judgement based on that whether you’ll approach your team leader or not.
3. Speak to your TL anyway and suggest you drop the tradition because you’re feeling the pinch.
4. Speak to your TL and say you can’t afford to participate in the tradition regardless so will only be paying for your own meal this year, irrespective of what everyone else wants to do.
5. Don’t say anything, go, pay their share and feel resentful.

Quite a few options for you there OP, only you know which one you feel most comfortable with and which one will go over best at your workplace.

@FridalovesDiego The point was that both them and their husbands make good money, so they are not lets say in a situation when their partners are unemployed and they need to provide for them. They are well off, not a crime, good on them. I just think with their circumstances being very dofferent from the usual lot of trainees, and other circumstances I mentioned, I don'd necessarily think they need to benefit from a free meal at the expense of people they don't seem to respect.
@PlanDeRaccordement - The meal is usually upwards of £30 for just food, so with service charge/tips, drinks etc, paid between 5/6 people if all of us go, it really can come up to that.
The age as I said is unimportant. I did my degree with ladies who were retraining after years of staying at home with kids so know how crippling it can be when you are looking for a new role after years of not working and I symphatise. But as I said, this is not the case.

I know more about their circumstances that I really want to write just by knowing them, so I get that people may make their own assumptions, fair enough. I suppose it's alot of things at play, my personal ciscumstances, theirs, their attitude and personalities and their contribution to work.

Nope, it makes no difference. Their partner’s earning are completely separate.

In this particular situation, I would not wish to contribute to their meal/ drinks especially when this is a privately arranged get together and not a company funded meal. It sounds like the original idea to pay for the interns was because they were on much lower/ limited income/ funds so would have greatly appreciated the gesture.

.... you are not obligated to pay/ contribute for others meals/ drinks especially if as you say their behaviour has been unpleasant towards yourself and the team.

Out of curiosity how many people actually go to this meal as you said it’s just a ‘couple of you’ but then you say if two of you drop out then the remaining people will have to pay more? I do think if it’s a tradition you have to either honour it this year too, or scrap it altogether going forward. You manager was completely out of order deciding the team would pay in the first place though without any prior discussion.