Aibu to think that my kids aren’t coming back?

[SeaOfDespair]

I had my girls removed last month and it’s been a very traumatic experience. My family are so far away, my friends have dwindled away and I’m stuck looking at these 4 walls.

I’m seeing a private child psychologist and doing some work with him. He understands how harsh the system can be. I’m doing 2 different parenting courses online. I’m paying for all of this myself and has been a bit of a struggle recently.

My solicitor just tells me to go along with whatever they want. I’ve ticked one thing off the list, but they’re not forthcoming with starting their own assessments. Social worker is either sick, or can’t be bothered.

My youngest has arrived to contact with bruising to her face 4 times. She is cruising, but never managed to be bruised within my care. My elder one seems sort of happy, but is having a lot of tantrums and isn’t able to communicate with me.

From them wanting to keep them at home on an order, their original intentions until the court hearing, to pretending I don’t exist. They didn’t even turn up to the meeting last week. No apology given. No notification of cancellation.

From a case of closing ranks to keeping the case open, it never did surprise me that they applied for a court order. My social worker’s reasoning? I don’t agree with their concerns, so there needs to be a care order.

Am I being unreasonable to think I don’t stand a chance in hell of getting them back, if they’re not willing to even bother working with me?

@caranconnor

Yes, many images are, but not all. But do they not provide plenty of inspiration or ideas? I.e. the beds are made, the carpets vacuumed, curtains up, belongings arranged on display, perhaps a bedside lamp, clean walls (not scribbled on etc) pictures on the wall. It doesn't need to be expensive or co-ordinated. It's not all to do with money. Besides which the OP has said that she has spent money on an expensive child development course and more recently, on an expensive replica doll. There are plenty of examples of normal real bedrooms/lounges online.

Okay fair point. Then the only thing to understand then is what is a normal level of messiness?

Perhaps when you're talking to the child who doesn't seem to listen, you could say child's name first, count in your head to five, then say name again slightly louder. And then once she's turning towards you and paying attention you say what you want to say.

I find this works well most of the time, although it feels rather strange at first.

I honestly find all this advice about playing with children, managing tantrums really perplexing.

I know PPs mean well, but OP doesn't have her children & the situation is clearly really serious. I can't offer anything better than other posters with better experience but I feel OP may just not be in a position (for whatever reason) to take on what SS are saying to her, process it & act on it.

I do feel the thread is a little harmful - as a PP early in thread said, it's RL support you need. All of us online, strangers to you, the situation & your children, can't know what the real story is or how to help.

I wish you well @SeaOfDespair 💐

To see real homes in a lived in state, the OP could Google houses and flats for sale in the city she lives in. Some places will be spotless, some tips. Most will be normal homes where people live with children, maybe tidied up for estate agent photos.

most will be normal homes where people live with children, maybe tidied up for estate agent photos.

Photos done to sell a house don’t give an accurate representation of how a house is lived in day to day. People shove tihings into cupboards while the photo is taken, or hide al the coats hanging off the banister, clear the kitchen work surfaces of everything only to put it back again after they’ve taken the photo. People don’t leave the ironing piles lying around for the photos. Normal day to day life is very different. People have clothes drying on airers, etc. Kids rooms are sometimes a bit messy (especially if you have big train sets on the floor or LOL doll stuff everywhere).

Stuff draining on the draining board or a few bottles soaking in the sink. if a SW or HV came to my house and moaned about stuff like that I would be horrified about how narrow-minded they were. As an example, i cleaned my bathroom from top to bottom yesterday and already there is a bit of shampoo on the shower screen and a few hairs on the floor. Someone has sprayed the bathroom mirror with a flick of their toothbrush. It was spotless yesterday. I clean my bathroom once a week. It’s all I have time for and it doesn’t seem to have done us any harm having a few hairs on the floor or a toothpaste smear in the sink etc . My kids are teens now and very happy and healthy and couldn’t be doing better in school. One doesn’t eat fruit. Sometimes their beds dont get changed For longer than a fortnight. DS2 once had a hole right through his shoe but just kept saying his feet got a bit wet when it rained so I didn’t notice for a few weeks. I wonder if the school staff saw it and noted it as a sign of neglect? Neither have desks in their rooms but I would be annoyed if a SW tried to tell me they should have their own private space to do homework. They are happy doing it at the kitchen table or on the computer in the sitting room.

I really wonder sometimes if people have got a warped view of what’s a normal acceptable home with things like Mrs Hinch obsessions. I hope that SW are sensible and realise that not everyone can have (or in fact WANTS to have) a show home.

OP I saw this online and thought it might be helpful to you www.familylives.org.uk/advice/your-family/social-services-and-your-family/coping-with-the-aftermath-of-having-your-children-removed-by-social-services/

@EarringsandLipstick OP is playing with her kids at contact sessions 3 times a week

A quick and fairly inexpensive way to brighten up a child's bedroom (esp if renting) are vinyl wall decals. No DIY or expertise required. They peel off again without pulling paint off the walls. And you can reuse them if you move. And you can put them at different heights, so some lower for the younger child etc. Amazon and eBay have loads for different budgets. This sort of thing... www.amazon.co.uk/decalmile-Animals-Stickers-Bedroom-Nursery/dp/B07TQT3FCW/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=wall+stickers+for+bedrooms+for+girls+nature&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1574114601&sr=8-2

I haven't read the whole thread but I wanted to say that I absolutely understand how you feel. 18 years ago I had a violent partner and my Ds was put on the cp register. Not for anything I'd done but because of his dad. I did everything that was asked of me by each and every social worker (they changed every month or so) and every time I did what they asked they found something else to be concerned about. I left his dad. They dumped me in a hostel with plug sockets hanging off the walls and refused to let me go home to get my benefit books, so I had no money and also refused to give me any money, therefor leaving me unable to feed my son, then complained that I wasn't feeding him a healthy diet.

One time it was because my son told the nursery worker that he was wearing his pajama top to school. He wasn't. It was a Simpsons top that was similar but not the same as his pajama top. Unbelievably they took the word of a 3 year old over mine. No one checked if it was a pajama top. They just took his word for it.

It was as if they just wanted to take him from me. I felt totally helpless. Then they decided to put him in my mums care as I was homeless. I found somewhere to live and they told my mum that she should prepare to adopt him as he could never come home to me, whilst on the same day telling me he was coming back to live with me.

My mum and I fell out as she felt I was lying by saying he was coming home and I thought she was trying to steal him. 3 days later they picked him up and brought him home to me!! My mum, who always believed that social services were honest and above reproach couldn't believe they had lied to her like that. She now hates social services with a passion.

Every little thing I did they found fault with. Eventually I just meekly agreed to whatever they said and eventually they went away.

Hugs. My advice is to play their game and do whatever they want until they fuck off.

I wouldn't mind but in my work I often see children who social services refuse to get involved with who really really need help.

Well yes, best foot forward, and all that when trying to sell a house. Houses for sale tend to have average furniture and photos displayed and a bit of art on the walls all the same, not cutting edge decor or the dentist's waiting room vibe but a happy medium. The OP could see ordinary homes, not magazine sets.

Branleuse every child I have ever encountered has lined up toys. It's a spontaneous pre maths activity.

Lining the items up the same way each time, getting upset and frustrated if the line is disturbed by someone else, obsessive lining/ intensity of focus and emotional investment in the lining up to any extent - yes, consider autism.

But even if a child aged 2-5 lines things up every day, and no day is complete without something lined up, there are still nuances.

The DD isn't necessarily autistic.

SeaofDespair, you have a letter proving to the first HV and to the SWs that you registered your DD with a GP within 6 weeks of the HV telling you to.

Questions:

• What age was your DD when you first registered with a GP according to the HV's order to you?
• Why had you no GP registration for her until then?
• Have you ever taken her to visit the GP she is now registered with?
• If yes, what has the GP said about autism?
• If no visit yet, why not?

It seems to me from the thread that the autism has been a concern of yours only since the initial complaint was filed.

Yes @caranconnor but it's really not the core issue, or even close.

The primary focus is not whether there are a few unwashed mugs. It is not whether the OP knows the words to ‘The wheels on the bus’. It is not whether they have a Brio set in the bedroom.
The primary focus is not and cannot be the OPs despair.it has to be the safety and wellbeing of the child. That paramount principle is enshrined in law.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s a multiagency carefully considered decision tested before a formal legal hearing.Nobody wants to separate children from parents. It’s not done lightly. In fact, it’s often left longer than ideal in the hope of maintaining family unity.

It's tosh to say children who line things up are likely to be autistic . Children with ASD May line things up but so do most pre-school children. It’s a normal development stage and some children/people continue to prefer order and sequencing to chaos. That doesn’t make them autistic. Our son used to become apoplectic if his cars were not in the correct order, against the wall of his bedroom every night for most of his early childhood; a more NT child it would be hard to find.

It’s not about creating a show home, I visited a home recently and the child’s room was just a bare room with a bed, there was no clue to the age of the child, whether they were a boy or girl, what is their favourite character or what they enjoyed playing with, the child had no ‘identity’ as parents did not understand their child’s needs, and no, there were no curtains and the child was dirty and it is classed as neglect.

@Whyhaveidonethis

In terms of you going back to get your benefit book from the place you weren't safe, this wasn't arbitrary. When a woman leaves a violent relationship the risk to her of serious harm or death increases, because her abuser is losing control. That is why they didn't want you to go back. Of course they should have provided financial support to you under S47 until you were able to sort out you finances.

Can't comment on the rest.

@MunaZaldrizoti that's my point. They didn't. They took me from one vulnerable situation and put me in another equally dangerous one. It was ridiculous. Of course I didn't want to go back, but I had a hungry child and no way to feed him. It was frankly terrifying.

I ended up at the homeless centre with a 1 year old to scrounge food.

@mathanxiety the HV never told me to sign up with a GP, she accused me in a referral of not doing so. I moved into the area, I signed up to a GP, letter dated within a week of me moving in. Was a month before she came to visit.

@Rattysparklebum

Exactly. I don't think many posters have been too outlandish with their home decor ideas- they're just simple/easy ways to turn a cold box room into a homely, snuggly, safe space. Things you could pick up on the cheap from Home Bargains or eBay.

A child's home should be somewhere safe, personalised and comfortable. Doesn't matter if it's all IKEA flat pack or not. Wall decals were a great suggestion by a PP- I have woodland ones in my daughter's nursery and they're gorgeous.

No one wants their family home to be a damp, cold, sparce white box where the only decoration on the walls is a bit of mould. Even when I was at uni, my rented digs were exactly that. It made me feel 1000x happier once I'd got my photos on the wall, a dehumidifier on and my bed sheets and cushions on the bed.

You can do amazing room transformations on a budget. But it's up to OP now. So many pages of suggestions that would all go a long way to helping her case. Or, at the very least, a nicer environment for her to live in.

She’s 3 now, the complaint was filed over 18 months ago. Why would you be concerned with autism in a child who’s less than 2?!

Their bedroom needs a paint before any stickers go on the wall. We had stickers in the last home, on my elder daughter’s bedroom wall. The curtains are nice too, they’re very pretty and pink.

Before you registered with this gp, when was the last time the girls visited the doctor ?

I just want to say I trust you OP. My only experience with the social services was during the private family law proceedings (between me and ex, with cafcass). I have dutifully disclosed in the usual questionnaire that I had three or four sessions with a psychotherapist when a war broke out in my home country, while I was in the UK with a small baby (and in full time work) and was unable to contact my family on the phone or in any other way (as the communications were down on their side). The high stakes drama the social worker started based on this disclosure was simply unbelievable (and the therapist volunteered to speak to her to confirm that there were no concerns about my mental health whatsoever - dismissed immediately). If I told here what was invented by the social worker just based on this one dry minor fact, refusing to see any other evidence or to speak to anyone, I'd be immediately accused of lying and hiding the real state of affairs. Hell, I would not have believed in this story myself if a third party told me.
Just want to wish you all the best, OP.

Is that something you could do to fill your time OP? Paint the girls bedroom and make it look nice. It would help show that you’re improving your home and planning for them to come back.
What do you have in the bedroom? For example, what furniture, is furniture like chest of drawers safely fixed to the wall?