Aibu to think that my kids aren’t coming back?

[SeaOfDespair]

I had my girls removed last month and it’s been a very traumatic experience. My family are so far away, my friends have dwindled away and I’m stuck looking at these 4 walls.

I’m seeing a private child psychologist and doing some work with him. He understands how harsh the system can be. I’m doing 2 different parenting courses online. I’m paying for all of this myself and has been a bit of a struggle recently.

My solicitor just tells me to go along with whatever they want. I’ve ticked one thing off the list, but they’re not forthcoming with starting their own assessments. Social worker is either sick, or can’t be bothered.

My youngest has arrived to contact with bruising to her face 4 times. She is cruising, but never managed to be bruised within my care. My elder one seems sort of happy, but is having a lot of tantrums and isn’t able to communicate with me.

From them wanting to keep them at home on an order, their original intentions until the court hearing, to pretending I don’t exist. They didn’t even turn up to the meeting last week. No apology given. No notification of cancellation.

From a case of closing ranks to keeping the case open, it never did surprise me that they applied for a court order. My social worker’s reasoning? I don’t agree with their concerns, so there needs to be a care order.

Am I being unreasonable to think I don’t stand a chance in hell of getting them back, if they’re not willing to even bother working with me?

Agree with mathanxiety. OP talk to your advocate and let them speak for you.

Another vote for what math has said.

Stop trying to point score with the social workers, get the offline advice and support you need and engage with the process.

Focus on the outcome you want, not trying to score points.

OP, you are incredibly frustrating on this forum. You are giving a pretty good idea of what you’re like with officials. Being petty and trying to score points is going to speed the process up of losing your children.

Take the sensible advice, get an advocate and let them explain your ASD to the relevant parties. Don’t start more hostility. It will absolutely not help.

....perhaps the reason I haven't done it.

If I was considering something and haven't actually done it, then calling me frustrating is incredibly rude, however you dress it up.

OP, when you say that social services were being vague in what they wanted you to do...I don't understand this.

You should have received a plan following every child in need and child protection meetings telling you exactly what was needed from you as well as the social worker/health visitor etc

The plan was particularly vague and very few things were listed. This is why the chairwoman wanted it to be stepped down by May, but this didn't happen.

Op - I think you need to separate out some of the issues. Yout child with suspected asd, are they on a waiting list for a paediatrician? Ask about FEET funding and free nursery hours. Portage. But ultimately your dd needs to be started on the asd investigation pathway for your area, in my area that’s via a paed.

Your SW might indeed be vindictive but again separate that out. It was a issue in the past, it’s gone now, it can’t be changed. The only way to live is today. So today you need to separate the past from your future. To get your kids back you have to show you you know you didn’t do abc but you are today. Then park the past HV complaint mentally and leave it in the past, it’s gone. Ok it was unfair and yes it’s crap but they will not shift their views. Ever.

Refocus your mind. What is important to you, where do you see yourself in 12 months, how will you get there.

I have a very strong sense of injustice. I had to fight to get my son a Sen diagnosis and echp with the most pompous egotistical head teacher alive. Any attempts to get him to be rational and put my child’s first just inflamed him more.

My son got his ehcp and is now in the best school. So my revenge was silently watching my son live his best life. Sod everyone else. GEt your justice via winning your kids back. Ok yes it’s unjust. But do you want to save our broken socail care system or save your kids. Focus all your negativity and passion on that.

@welltroddenpath You speak a lot of sense. The free nursery hours are only available in England but she should be going to nursery school in January, although this is doubtful now. I can't see any reference to FEET funding outside of England on Google.

My daughter is on the pathway, she won't be seen by a paed before the ending of the court case, but there isn't much I can do about that. I'm really glad you managed to get your son sorted out. Many people put their 'professional views' before the children and it's not fair.

Yes, sometimes I'm too focused on injustice. It makes me sad that it's not only the girls and I going through this. I know there isn't much I can do about it and my attempts to argue that the game isn't balanced will be totally ignored and inflame the situation. It's weird, for someone with ASD, I'm very empathetic and I do my best to care about everyone, but you're right, this isn't my fight.

I just want the girls back and I'm doing what they ask of me. I don't particularly like it, but being stuck on my own with my daughters is worse. The prospect of forced adoption is worse. Hopefully, I can get the girls back, then attempt to fix the broken social care system, after they're safely back at home.

*without

OP

You’ve taken umbrage at someone describing you as frustrating instead of properly considering the underlying message. This may be related to ASD (I don’t know). If people on this thread are finding your communication style frustrating, which has been the theme of a number of comments, then it is likely the SW are too. This is not a criticism of you, it’s just something to be aware of. It’s one of the reasons an advocate will help.

I am a lawyer, I argue for sheer enjoyment. I could run rings around many junior staff at organisations when they cite rules or regulations at me. But as a rule I don’t do it. A confrontational approach rarely works and can be totally counterproductive when people have the power to block you from getting what you want.

You will no doubt say that you are not confrontational, you are simply pointing out that they are incorrectly interpreting something, used unclear language, contradicting themselves etc. People will find direct challenges in a situation where they are expecting cooperation confrontational. SW are not there to debate, they are there to ensure your DC are in a safe and appropriate environment. You did not like being told someone found you frustrating; in the same way, do you think the SW like being challenged by you?

You really have to decide what is your goal here. If getting your DC back is your priority (which it clearly is) then you need to behave in a way that allows the SW feel their concerns have been acknowledged and addressed. Once a SW has formalised a concern, it is on record and has to be satisfied even if you don’t agree with it. SW are going to struggle to return children if they have outstanding, unaddressed concerns.

PP have pointed out that you don’t have to agree with those concerns to address them e.g.
SW raised a concern about the lack of curtains in the DC’s bedroom
-Curtains have been fitted.
SW raised concerns about the lack of age appropriate developmental toys

• Toys have been decluttered, the number of soft toys reduced and age appropriate developmental toys put in an easily accessible location

With this sort of format you are not commenting on the validity of the concern but simply stating the reason why the concern is now satisfied.

What @Chaz says. Stop arguing with SS.

If they say X needs to be done, do it, and demonstrate it/show proof that it's been done. And then move on to Y and Z accordingly.

If you continue to be confrontational and defensive with them at every single angle, you will not get your children back.

On this thread you have continued to give reasons why SS are wrong to cite neglect as reason for removal, and have continued to postulate your own version/reality of what neglect is and is not. If it makes you sound immature and irrational on here, just how do you think the professionals are viewing you as a parent to your dc?

Now stop dicking around doing child psychology courses, and just do what has been asked of you, and maintain all of those requirements. That is the ONLY way your dc will be returned to you.

What did you mean by you have too much food, and too many clothes? Do you waste money on those things?

You spend £50 a session on child psychology. Where is the money coming from? I do feel that could be better spent on addressing the general state of your home. There have been some good suggestions here on practical things we can help you with. I understand if you don’t want to out yourself by having photos of your actual home, but if you look at other people’s homes, can you see if yours looks the same? Do you think if a stranger came into your home right now, would they think it was well presented, clean, cosy? Do you have pictures up? Photos of the children on display? Do you have nice furnishings like blankets, lamps, rugs, plants, cushions, books for yourself?

You say you wash and change bedding every day. Most people wouldn’t do that, unless it needs to be changed because a child has wet the bed or been sick. Most people would only change the sheets once a week for example. That’s an example, to me, of you focussing on the wrong things.
As PP have said, lists and schedules would help. Have a meal plan one week in advance. Look on the internet for examples of healthy, balanced, home cooked meals. List one here and we can advise.
Have a cleaning schedule for a week. Find an example on google and we can advise there too.
Have a plan of what you can do every week to occupy yourself. For example, list the days you have contact, go for a long walk, do some exercise, go food shopping, meet up with a friend for coffee. Instead of staring at the walls, make sure you look after your own mental and physical wellbeing. Keeping a good routine for all of these things will help with stability, will help with clear thinking, will keep on top of everything to show your life is in order.

Others have said repeatedly, have an advocate in place, make sure every time you have a meeting, have someone there to take notes for you, to be clear on what steps you need to take and timescales. Don’t focus on one little thing, be clear on exactly what they’re asking and expecting. If a SW says you need to sort out your home, say for example “just to be clear, do you mean clean it more, or tidy up more, and what specifically”. But be polite, not defensive, show you are willing to do whatever they say as long as the instructions are clear.

They're wanting further assessment, but not yet started. Nothing else. I’m not a sit on my bum and do nothing person.

I’ve started looking for another advocate, one who knows how to deal with my condition.

Getting an advocate isn’t like clicking your fingers and one appears. Time is really limited.

Nobody is suggesting it is a case of clicking your fingers OP.
It's digs like that that come across as defensive and like you're more bothered about point scoring.

There's lots of excellent advice within this thread that will be hugely beneficial to you if you choose to act on it. I just hope you take on board the more challenging elements of the thread too, otherwise I fear you'll end up going through multiple advocates under the claim that none of them get you, none of them understand, they're part of a conspiracy too.

Do you have a friend you could take to help you take notes?

The quicker you can recognise and accept that you are not deep into a system that you can't control, the more you can move forward and do what you need to get your kids back. It's way beyond you trying to make a stand that they have done everything wrong and you know better.

Your kids have been taken away and the only way you'll get them back is by doing what you are told to, regardless of what you think of what they are asking you to adhere to, and/or them getting things wrong about you.

It's up to you whether you surrender and listen, and get a chance to have your kids back, or opt for obstination, defiance, and however much you think it is right, will only take your kids further away.

What's best for your children?

Agree, for each helpful suggestion, really think about how you can achieve it. Instead of “that will take too long” your mindset should be ‘I will put myself on the waiting list’.
Sometimes long waiting lists aren’t as bad as they initially say because of cancellations etc. At least you’d be showing willingness. If a SW hears you’re on a waiting list for assessment, they know you’re listening and doing something about it, not making excuses.

I’ve no idea, re: the flat. I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. Cosy, I have no idea. Isn’t cosy usually used as way how to describe a cramped tip? No, no pictures. I don’t like them on the wall.

I can’t deal with with a strict cooking schedule. The food I give appears to be healthier than what a lot of toddlers seem to get. Chicken nuggets, chips and beans is very rare. A couple of portions of veg, a portion of protein and usually something starchy too.

How do I stick to a cleaning rota? I haven’t got anything to frame it around now. I used to frame it around the kids and they’re not here now. Also, how do if I know it’s satisfactory? They’re not saying they want me to tidy the place up. It’s weird.

But they’re not wanting much from me. I attend the contact and they’ve not started the assessments yet. I’ve done the psych one.

It’s not that I don’t do it, I’m trying to find an appropriate advocacy service. I will put my name down when I find something. I’m just realistic about the wait being longer than the court case.

And take letters along with you to meetings or hearings. Show them ‘here’s a letter from such and such confirming I’m on the waiting list’. Here’s a letter showing the repairs will be done by the end of the month.
I suspect ‘I’m doing child psychology courses’ won’t help as much as you think. Do the things they’re actually telling you to do. Could you take cookery lessons? Could you watch cleaning tutorials online? Could you research local playgroups and have a plan for attending some for if/when the children are returned?
If you struggle with verbal communication, take a list of points to meetings. Don’t give an excuse about why things take so long, say what’s actually being done. Ask if there’s anything else you can do to address their concerns in the meantime. Show you’re willing to do anything.

Re cosy, no it doesn’t describe a cramped tip. I would think of things as I said before, some blankets, cushions, rugs, lamps, plants, books to read, a coffee table with coasters, maybe a candle. Somewhere you want to spend your evening, somewhere that looks nice and inviting, pleasant to curl up on the sofa and watch tv. You don’t like pictures on the wall, what about elsewhere? Do you have any photos of your children around anywhere at all? What about a clock on the wall, or just something so it doesn’t look like a blank, stark, empty four walls?
If you google ‘cosy lounge’ does yours look anything at all like any of the first 100 images? If not, can you see how you could make yours nicer? I’m not saying you need an interior design award winning flat, but just little things you can do to make your home a more appropriate home, if that’s been a concern?

How do I go about getting such letters? How would I present them to them and get them to pay attention?

They’re not really telling me to do anything, they want further assessment. They’re not asking for the flat tidied or meal plans. They acknowledge they eat well, but basing it on the history, not today.