Aibu to think that my kids aren’t coming back?

[SeaOfDespair]

I had my girls removed last month and it’s been a very traumatic experience. My family are so far away, my friends have dwindled away and I’m stuck looking at these 4 walls.

I’m seeing a private child psychologist and doing some work with him. He understands how harsh the system can be. I’m doing 2 different parenting courses online. I’m paying for all of this myself and has been a bit of a struggle recently.

My solicitor just tells me to go along with whatever they want. I’ve ticked one thing off the list, but they’re not forthcoming with starting their own assessments. Social worker is either sick, or can’t be bothered.

My youngest has arrived to contact with bruising to her face 4 times. She is cruising, but never managed to be bruised within my care. My elder one seems sort of happy, but is having a lot of tantrums and isn’t able to communicate with me.

From them wanting to keep them at home on an order, their original intentions until the court hearing, to pretending I don’t exist. They didn’t even turn up to the meeting last week. No apology given. No notification of cancellation.

From a case of closing ranks to keeping the case open, it never did surprise me that they applied for a court order. My social worker’s reasoning? I don’t agree with their concerns, so there needs to be a care order.

Am I being unreasonable to think I don’t stand a chance in hell of getting them back, if they’re not willing to even bother working with me?

No speech has been noted in contact or around professionals, but FC dispute this and say she can say 4 words.
4 words is still aa serious speech delay, and she has only been heard by a foster carer who may be interpreting sounds as simple words as Ive met a couple of short term foster carers who like to priove they can perform miracles. Now if she had been speaking full sentances to the social worker, that would be a different matter

Its good that you have some absolutes now, they they have been clear and succinct and also that many of their previous concerns are no longer an issue.

Yes, the words she's apparently coming out with sound very like her babbles, which she will use for anything. Yes, she was saying how easily she gets them to bed. When that was fine at home.

How often are you going to contact sessions with your children?

3 times a week

That is a real positive.

A positive in what way?

That you are going to contact sessions.

Of course I go to them, that's my only opportunity to spend time with my girls, even though it's incredibly difficult.

I think pp meant it's good that you get to see them at all - because that's the first time you've mentioned it on the thread. Whether you meant for it or not, the facts are coming out in a sort of drip feed. It's hard to follow.

It also shows the SW team that you want to maintain a connection with your children. I know it seems obvious but sometimes you have to demonstrate that you care and that you make an effort.

I think pp meant it's good that you get to see them at all - because that's the first time you've mentioned it on the thread.

I'm sure she's mentioned it before, to be fair to her. I definitely remember it.

I have been the accomodation when a child has been removed from their birth parents. Its a heartbreaking time for everyone both you and your children. I feel for you all. OP no matter whatever your opinion of social services make you keep a writtem diary of each time you attend somwthing such as your counselling, your family time (previously contact) sessions ie what you have done with your children any phonecalls you make and emails. Meet with your solicitor and demonstrate any changes they wish to see. Make sure you are clear and try not to get too emotional deal in facts only.
Try to have something in your life aside from this get out for a regular walk or meet people if you can they will want to see you as stable and ready as possible. Good luck OP. Keep well.

My first post referenced contact

@RuffleCrow Op did mention her children she is in contact with them three times a week

I also mentioned it on the 2nd page, if I remember correctly. I think I mentioned attending and getting there.

@Stinkycatbreath thank you. I am struggling to get out now, as it's depressing to see everywhere that reminds me of the girls. It's been getting harder since time has been ticking on. My home has became my protective little bubble. I did work on my fitness for a couple of weeks and do need to resume this.

I think that social workers are not purposely biased against the poor - rather they judge where money is being spent and disagree on parent's priorities. When money is in short supply then priorities become more relevant.

A (possibly fake) designer-clad mother with the latest mobile phone feeding children a very cheap diet consisting of pizza, frozen chips, beans, sausages and toast is a target. Her children do not look healthy and are overweight. She is given details of a nearby nutrition course and doesn't attend (she forgot). It's not the fact she is poor but that it looks as if her children's nutrition is not a priority.

Another family were overrun with a vast quantities of soft toys and dolls and out-grown rattles and baby clothes but no visible age appropriate toys -no building blocks, crayons, playdough, jigsaws, books, bath toys etc. They are advised to attend a toddler group - several local ones run throughout the week. They go to one and leave after a few minutes as it was 'not their sort of place' and they didn't want to pay the £1 cost. They are later advised to attend a free parenting course at a nearby school (with free childcare facilities available) - they don't attend. They do not give them much time and attention now they aren't cute little babies. The parents now have another baby and the older children are always late for nursery/school. The oldest child said he didn't get a birthday card or present. At the same time the baby being fussed about in a new, top of the range, pram despite two other prams in evidence at their house. It is not the fact they are poor but they are prioritising having babies over fully looking after and providing for their existing children.

Poorer people are more likely to have smaller homes. Clutter is more visible in smaller homes. If parents aren't working then messy, chaotic homes are judged more.

I think professional/educated people are more likely to stand up for themselves with social workers. They do not believe they are getting things wrong and the social workers find them arrogant and unwilling to listen to them. I think the social worker judge them more than poor people for getting things wrong.

Poor people can be well educated, which can also be the worst of both worlds.

The problem being, I suppose, is that they could have jumped to the conclusion about money not being spent in the right places. It's like those who judge people, who they perceive to be on benefits, having Sky or whatever else.

A mother could have the latest iphone and still be struggling on a budget. This is easily perceived as poor budgeting, without actually questioning how the phone was bought. It could have been bought as a ripped off contract, a loan, a present etc.,. That's actually the huge problem with bias, it's based purely on personal perception, rather than hard facts.

Professionals also seem to expect someone on benefits to have failed at school, be inarticulate and be more grateful. There are lots of reasons why people aren't able to gain (meaningful) employment. Someone who struggles financially may not have the resources to be able to get a (meaningful) degree.

Poor people can be well educated, which can also be the worst of both worlds.

Yup. And IME there’s nothing social workers like less than a client who is better educated than them.

OP, I'm not understanding who made the original complaint to SS, was it the health visitor that you put in a complaint about? Or did it come from elsewhere? Why did you put in your original complaint about her?

The health visitor and racially inflammatory comments.

OP, you're right. There are plenty of people who are poor, yet incredibly money savvy and know how to make every penny stretch. There are also people who work on a tight budget, and their only 'luxuries' (fancy tv, etc) might have been a gift for a big birthday, or a moving home present, etc.

However, in their professional experience, this scenario probably is in the minority. A lot of poorer families struggle to budget because their parents will (likely) have been in the same boat and also struggled with money, thus, money saving and budgeting skills haven't been taught. Most people do have luxuries because they've bought them, rather than having been bought them. Unfortunately, a lot of people are taken in by getting things on finance, too, and end up having huge monthly bills because of their phone, tv, etc.

It's SS's job to ensure that the parent's priority is on their child. A home that's clean and mould/pest free. A home that the parent will stay in for many years so it is a stable environment. A home where the child has their own space and age appropriate (and clean) toys, books, etc. A home where each child has enough clothes which are suitable for them to wear. A home where the child is being fed a balanced diet. And of course, parent/s who get out of the house and go to things with their child so they can develop.

All of those factors are non negotiable. So if SS see a parent actively not doing these things (whether it's one of them or all of them), and instead they've wasted money on a new iPhone while saying they're too broke to go to the toddler group in town on the bus... you can see that that would raise eyebrows.

At the end of the day, the kids do need to overwhelmingly come across as the priority. We can argue all day about how things look on the surface aren't how they actually are, but SS have a limited amount of time with each person in a case. It's up to the parent to make every second of that time a positive plead for their case. Not giving them more things to hold onto, and use against them. Arguing against the system will only damage your own case, unfortunately.

The only thing they've said that confirm their fears of neglect actually do boil down to developmental delays. It was good that that I have evidence to show that my youngest one is developmentally fine. She also has a secure attachment to me

This all sounds like it's going in the right direction, especially for the younger one.
Hopefully, a positive outcome can come from all this with more help for your elder daughter.
Keep going to the contact sessions, keep showing you're a dedicated mother who has her children's best interests at heart. You'll probably have to be very patient as I get the impression things move slowly.
What does community visits mean ? Do you get to take them out ?

I hope you get some permanant housing sorted. I also sympathise with the mould problem, white vinegar kills it.

My heart goes out to you OP. I am on the autistic spectrum myself and have two young children, one of whom is autistic. I had a mental breakdown this year from the stress of caring for them and sorting out EHCP and schooling. So many plates to spin that I dropped lots and they smashed to the floor.

I am a well educated, middle class white woman who lives in her own home, and my psychiatrist laughed at my concerns that SS might get involved. I could be doing a worse job than you and nobody would know.

I hope you get yourself and your living situation to a place where you can have your girls again.