Aibu to think that my kids aren’t coming back?

[SeaOfDespair]

I had my girls removed last month and it’s been a very traumatic experience. My family are so far away, my friends have dwindled away and I’m stuck looking at these 4 walls.

I’m seeing a private child psychologist and doing some work with him. He understands how harsh the system can be. I’m doing 2 different parenting courses online. I’m paying for all of this myself and has been a bit of a struggle recently.

My solicitor just tells me to go along with whatever they want. I’ve ticked one thing off the list, but they’re not forthcoming with starting their own assessments. Social worker is either sick, or can’t be bothered.

My youngest has arrived to contact with bruising to her face 4 times. She is cruising, but never managed to be bruised within my care. My elder one seems sort of happy, but is having a lot of tantrums and isn’t able to communicate with me.

From them wanting to keep them at home on an order, their original intentions until the court hearing, to pretending I don’t exist. They didn’t even turn up to the meeting last week. No apology given. No notification of cancellation.

From a case of closing ranks to keeping the case open, it never did surprise me that they applied for a court order. My social worker’s reasoning? I don’t agree with their concerns, so there needs to be a care order.

Am I being unreasonable to think I don’t stand a chance in hell of getting them back, if they’re not willing to even bother working with me?

I am prepared for the suggestion of forced adoption. There doesn't seem to be much clarity on what their longer term intentions are
Social services want children with their families and families to be supported in getting the help they need for the children to thrive.
They don't want children in care. There's a shortage of foster carers. There's an even bigger shortage when it comes to older children and teens. Children in the care system have worse educational outcomes and are more likely to have a range of issues, despite people in the sector having good intentions. Nobody working with children wants that.
Adoption isnt a first plan either

You seem to be intent on thinking that all of these different professions (from multiple social workers, multiple health visitors, the judge, multiple solicitors etc) all happen to have come to the same conclusion as part of some conspiracy.

They will want the children back home with you, safe and healthy and happy and cared for because that's what is best for the children. They won't have them back home if it's not in the best interests of the children.
Whether you choose to engage with the process and reflect is the biggest factor in how likely that is to happen.

I can totally understand how this happens. My ex had a section 7 ordered due him not wanting to pay child support. SW came to the house inspected every nook and carney, best she could find to complain about was my too small bathroom (actually went in the report) and I was dressed in gym gear drinking a smoothie so they needed to keep an eye to make sure my kids didn’t become anorexic (again in the report). After ex got a grip and dropped the case this fat arsed SW insisted on checking up on us regularly. Luckily I got £7,000 through in a insurance claim and used it to move otherwise I’m sure it would have escalated when I eventually snapped.

You know what OP? You've got an answer for everything. I can totally see why SS would think you aren't willing to engage with them.

But yeah, you go right ahead and blame everyone else but yourself for where you are right now.

shakes head

SeaOfDespair

Apologies if I have missed it.

Can you clarify which category of harm the children were removed under:

Emotional harm
Neglect
Sexual abuse
Physical harm

But physical neglect isn't a matter of opinion. Sexual abuse isn't a matter of opinion. Emotional abuse isn't particularly clear cut, in a lot of situations.

Neglect is a type of parenting style, often misunderstood. I mean, if your children are loved, but lack boundaries, you're likely to have an indulgent/permissive parenting style. Whilst it may not be associated with the best outcomes for the child, it's not neglect.

If you're too strict and not warm enough with the child, that doesn't make you neglectful either. It makes you authoritarian. This again doesn't lead to the best outcomes, but it's not neglect.

Neglectful parenting is described as, "pre-occupied with own activities, uninvolved with children and uninterested in their activities". If you leave young children to their own devices and see them as a burden, that's neglect. It's called 'free range' parenting in America.

I think you are missing the point. There will be adult education courses targeted at those with specific needs. These may not be advertised widely but organised with partner organisations such as Children's centres, schools, community groups, mental health organisations and local charities. They may include basic skills such as literacy, numeracy, budgetting, practical skills such as weaning, health advice, paediatric first aid, child development, supporting children's education or soft skills such as self confidence and assertiveness. Do check online who provides government funded adult education in your area, it may be a local college and/or educational organisation.

was dressed in gym gear drinking a smoothie so they needed to keep an eye to make sure my kids didn’t become anorexic

this fat arsed SW

Umm. I wonder if they picked up some subtle signs of body issues. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Which one was it though, OP?

@ SmileEachDay she was huge, she had the body issue not me ffs

Arguing over the definitions of "neglect" is avoiding addressing the specific issues raised and will not help you regain custody. Neglect can be the cumulative effect of a number of issues which in themselves may be relatively minor.

I'm not replying to any further insulting and unhelpful posts.

Neglect, sorry, I find it difficult to respond to read and respond to multiple posts.

for those interested
this is the programme 'protecting our children' where tv follows SW and their cases. Its interesting but little bit old.

www.dailymotion.com/video/x15pc3t

@ SmileEachDay but again fatty wrote the report but a normal sized person attended court so you’d look like an absolute maniac trying to tell a judge the SW had the issue not you. It’s all bollocks and rarely in the children’s interests.

@Inliverpool1 haha! You made me laugh. My sw always needs to mention the gym, in any small talk before meetings.

Thank you sadwithkiddies....thas the programme I was talking about

Neglect, sorry, I find it difficult to respond to read and respond to multiple posts

That’s ok.

From your post above, it seems like you disagree with the definition of neglect?

@ SeaOfDespair I don’t envy you my love. I’m a foster carer now and some of the stories the kids tell me about what’s gone on blow my mind

but again fatty wrote the report but a normal sized person attended court

Okaaaay. Either you do have issues with weight or you’re just really rude 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm not replying to any further insulting and unhelpful posts
I think some of the posts you may be thinking are unhelpful may actually be more helpful than you realise.

If you're seeking validation then that's understandable, but not automatically helpful for you in my opinion.

To me you sound like a mum who cares and wants her children back and is finding this whole situation stressful.
But if you want to get the resolution you want, you're going to need to get past the "everyone is against me" rut, and consider that posters who are offering alternative things to consider may be doing so because they're things to think about that might improve your situation.

Whilst there is never need to be unpleasant, sometimes on threads the posts that are the most useful and helpful arent the same as the ones validating whatever an OP says.

OP. From what you are saying your living conditions are the cause of having your children removed due to neglect. Not taking your children to appropriate appointments / engaging with health services for them / not providing adequate living conditions are all classified as neglect. Stop parroting attachment theory statements any fool can read about on the internet and address the situation at hand. Social services are not going to be so impressed with a few quotes about parenting from you that they hand your your daughter's back after all the work that has gone into removing them. You are completely focussed on the wrong thing. Solve the problems that lead to this and if your still interested study child psychology AFTER your children are returned to you.

I think it can be correct in many cases, but it seems to be used as an umbrella to shove miscellaneous concerns under. What I'm saying is that parenting that isn't ideal can be labelled as neglect, but may not actually be such. I do think child protection needs a bit of an overhaul and more independence anyway. Too much of it is based on opinion.

No, free range parenting is not anything like neglect. That is a radical misunderstanding.

That aside, I really feel for you. It sounds as though you have done your best and the goalposts keep moving (or were never properly defined in the first place). I hope the various organisations you have contacted will provide assistance and support.

What I'm saying is that parenting that isn't ideal can be labelled as neglect, but may not actually be such

Ok, that’s interesting. Can you explain what you mean? I’m wondering if this is where the mismatch is between your perception and the perception of some agencies?

I have attended all appointments. I have engaged with health services. I've done my best about the living conditions, they're not ideal, but it's the nature of temporary accommodation. I did my utmost to push them into repairs, which eventually worked, with enough pestering.

I didn't say I had the conversation with the social services. I don't think mention attachment theory, but that is used inappropriately too. I do think if local authorities want to promote positive parenting, there needs to be good understanding of parenting styles. Any fool can read about it, but most won't.