Aibu to think that my kids aren’t coming back?

[SeaOfDespair]

I had my girls removed last month and it’s been a very traumatic experience. My family are so far away, my friends have dwindled away and I’m stuck looking at these 4 walls.

I’m seeing a private child psychologist and doing some work with him. He understands how harsh the system can be. I’m doing 2 different parenting courses online. I’m paying for all of this myself and has been a bit of a struggle recently.

My solicitor just tells me to go along with whatever they want. I’ve ticked one thing off the list, but they’re not forthcoming with starting their own assessments. Social worker is either sick, or can’t be bothered.

My youngest has arrived to contact with bruising to her face 4 times. She is cruising, but never managed to be bruised within my care. My elder one seems sort of happy, but is having a lot of tantrums and isn’t able to communicate with me.

From them wanting to keep them at home on an order, their original intentions until the court hearing, to pretending I don’t exist. They didn’t even turn up to the meeting last week. No apology given. No notification of cancellation.

From a case of closing ranks to keeping the case open, it never did surprise me that they applied for a court order. My social worker’s reasoning? I don’t agree with their concerns, so there needs to be a care order.

Am I being unreasonable to think I don’t stand a chance in hell of getting them back, if they’re not willing to even bother working with me?

It makes no sense whatsoever, and just sounds like conspiracy theory bullshit from people who have a vested interest in calling social workers 'evil'.

Tbf I have only spent time with social workers in a professional arrangement rather than a personal but I can understand why some people are very untrusting towards them. It is a running joke within the sector that no one wants to deal with the social workers, especially under the local authority I work in.
Like I said previously, some I have worked with have been fantastic, others have been standard but done the best they could but I have worked with a few who need to give up the day job as they have not only made situations worse but lied and manipulated situations to cover themselves. There was a huge investigation a few years ago now where the social services mishandled information and it put many other professionals in the firing line (police, healthcare professionals ect). It turned out it was wrong doings on the social services side but they did try to hide it and blame others which has now left a very bitter taste in other professionals mouths and that is why I said about everything now being recorded when in communication with them.
Hopefully it is just the local authority I work under that this has happened in and others are much better but I can understand why the average Joe blogg is wary of social services when the professionals are also.

Some links where you may get advice and support

Parents, Families and Allies Network
www.pfan.uk/

Rights of Women
rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/family-law-legal-aid/

Family Rights Group
www.frg.org.uk/

OmniversalsTapdancingTadpole
Who knows. Maybe they didn't know about it as the sides of the family had fallen out and weren't in contact at that time but she's since made contact? Might not be that tge op was lying aboyt gaving any nice family as hou were suggesting. Families are often more complex than "All are horrible or all are nice.

That posted before I'd edited the typos but you get the gist

@nedaro erm, wtf

Our neighbour went through the same thing, over a disproved allegation, did everything she could and her kids are worse off, no advice but I’ve seen how disgusting they can be

This is all irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if you could individually convince every single member of Mumsnet that your children should be returned, we aren't the people you need to convince.

Get an advocate to attend every single meeting and contact with you from now on, and mediate between you and the agencies, so you both have a clear understanding of what is being communicated. Comply with what they ask you to do. That is the ONLY way that you stand any chance of getting your children back.

You're fighting an uphill battle anyway, as the girls would be being removed from somewhere that SS feels they are settled back to temporary accommodation, where you have little support. If they also think that you are not complying with instructions, even if that's because of communication issues, you're going to stand no chance.

There's no point arguing that or whether SS is stealing babies, or whether they should have worked harder to find you someone to advocate for you and mediate... They work on behalf of your children. What you've tried so far hasn't worked. If you want your children back, get someone who can facilitate communication between you and SS, and do everything they tell you to do.

@Nedaro that is pretty low. Well very low.

To pp mention of rekindling relationship with DV ex, ime ss do see this as a major safeguarding concern. However, they do not see contact between DV ex and DC as a problem. Very often single mothers are left to take the brunt off ss involvement, when the blame lies with the DV ex. Sexist, twisted society we live in, that favours dv men.

Paisleyprintz - i agree, but the issue usually is that SS don't want any contact with the violent dad and the children. So dad isn't allowed to see them, and if mum continues the relationship and allows access to the children, they would be removed from her care as well. So it's not about punishing the woman for the mans crimes (although I agree that men DV perpetrators are dealt with far too leniently), but rather to safeguard the children from even being in contact with the violent parent.

the only reason I mentioned it was that OP hasn't mentioned the dad, and this issue is a classic example of children being removed when the mum is actually caring for them OK.

I feel for you OP. I could so easily have been in the same position as you. I also have autism and also faced a social services investigation on the back of a malicious report from a social worker in a different area (I'd taken her to court and won, this was her revenge) and because the report came from another professional child services took it very seriously.

Thankfully in my case, the child social workers were very professional and the evidence they gathered showed that it was malicious and my child was very well cared for. They closed the case. I dread to think what would have happened if they'd had the same attitude and understanding of autism as the malicious social worker.

My advice to you is to ask your solicitor to get social services to put in writing what you need to do to move towards getting your children back. If they are unclear, get you solicitor to clarify with them. Do it through your solicitor so that it's properly documented.

Another thing I did was record meetings. Not secretly, openly with the agreement of everyone present. On the basis that it can become overwhelming and key info can be missed. This way I could play it back when I was less stressed and properly process what was being said.

@Glacecherrychops

Yes but all too often women leave the perpetrator only to be court ordered for him to have supervised contact with the DCs only for that to quickly go to unsupervised contact.

Yes, and I agree that's appalling.

But the issue around children being removed from their mothers when the mother is continuing a relationship with a violent abuser, is that the mum is putting her children's safety at risk. And so the children can be removed, even though the woman is meeting all the children's needs and the bond between them is strong. It's completely devastating, but sadly the children's safety must come first.

Anchordown This is all irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if you could individually convince every single member of Mumsnet that your children should be returned, we aren't the people you need to convince.

Well, I think it does matter, and isn't irrelevant atall.

If OP is isolated and without support for this and at her wits end, what she's doing here in writing and reaching out is a massive step to helping her dc and herself.

She shouldn't be made to feel she has to do this in a vacuum.

I do get the sentiment that MN can't change her particilar case with ss, but these types of threads and conversations raise the profile of very real and damaging issues for dc and mothers. MN do bring about national campaigns as a result, and hopefully OP will not feel so despairing as a result of the support and belief she's received here.

She's remained calm and faced quite the barrage of questions and doubters, and been continually justifying her position when she's come asking for help.

There are many professionals and victims, that rightly question and have experience of sometimes very poor, and at worst life-threatening decisions, and I'm talking about loss of DMs lives not just dc to perps, when loved and cared for dc are robbed of their lives with their DMs. DC suffer horrendous consequences when this happens also.

I wondered how long before baby P was raised
It would be. On all the dispatches investigate social services in the UK Baby P was mentioned many times.
If anyone has to time to watch them.
His death had a massive impact on social workers, they have cases they can't cover it was a constant worry.
I fear SS myself I've no particular reason to but with 2 ASD children it is always in the back of my mind if they thought I wasn't coping.

Tidy have you posted that as some kind of evidence that OP should not be believed?

Whats the point in that?

@Glacecherrychops my point was very often ss are happy for dc to have contact with the dv perp. While the perp might not be violent to the dc per se, is it not damaging for dc in the long run to have contact with such a twisted individual? A dv perp having ANY influence over their dc? DV should be a major red flag to ss, wrt to dc interactions with dv perp, it ought to bring into question the impact of ANY involvement of a father who is/has been dv. Who can possibility measure the negative effects of access between dv man and dc? It's a major loop hole in the safeguarding of dc wrt dv, imo.

Ime, a single mother stopping or reducing contact between dv ex and dc IS frowned upon, and the damage done as a result of dv, on the mother and dc, is not seen as a valid enough reason to stop/limit access to the dc.

Of course, we don't know if this is a factor in the OP's case, but I feel it's an area of safeguarding that is worthy of far more scrutiny.

@PaisleyPrintz In my experience, when DV is proven contact between the perpetrator and children is stopped immediately.

The cases you are describing I've found are more usually: after a breakup, the mum alleges domestic violence and doesn't want the dad to have contact. As this isn't proven and could be due to mum not wanting dad to have contact, dad has supervised, and then unsupervised contact.

In cases where the dad has been prosecuted successfully for DV, I have never heard of the dad having contact.

What about when the mum tries to press charges, but the perp alleges they are the one who is being abused?

What about emotional and psychological abuse? It's very hard to prove. It's a massive grey area.

Very often women do not press charges because of the daunting process of court involvement, and counter allegations, threatening to take the mother to court for custody.

There is next to zero support for women and children affected by dv. It can very often feel that ss and police take the side of the perp, especially when the perp is an expert manipulator, and will make out the mother as crazy, etc.

It is very hard to prove, and IO would say depends on context.

In the context of a recent breakup where the parents are fighting over custody, allegations of abuse that have never been previously mentioned are taken with a pinch of salt. If a woman flees DV and goes to a hostel, whilst the DV perp is prosecuted, it is easy to say what has happened. If both parents are claiming that the other one was abusive, but they never thought to raise it during the relationship or seek any help at all, it is difficult to confidently say what has happened. Not saying it hasn;'t happened, but it's not as easy to say one parent can;'t have access.

Also, my point to the OP was that sometimes there is siugnificant evidence that DV has occured, but women want to continue the relationship, and in this case SS would remove the children to protect them. In this context - DV has been proven, and the man is not allowed access, but the woman is.

The poor diet is based on a singular question, which was about breakfast. My eldest likes porridge with fruit. She has a lot of fish and absolutely loves veg. It has been noted by other people that she was offered a good variety of meals, which are of good nutritional value. But due to the original referral, it keeps being brought up.

I manage my money fine, the kids always had access to appropriate food. I was criticised in the past for buying too many clothes. They had their bed and cot changed daily, to keep it nice and fresh. I offered to show them a budgeting place and they weren’t interested.

As for the mould, the main problem is in my bedroom. It has been agreed that to fully tackle the problem, I will have to move out because it needs a damp course and proofing. I have explored the idea of private rent, which may not be brilliant, but I thought it would be more stable. They didn’t like this idea and discouraged it. I did speak to the council about alternative temp accommodation, but that is more instability for the girls. They told me that a lot of their temporary accommodation is of a poor condition. I bleach the mould every 2 days, so it’s actually improved loads. At one stage it was absolutely awful. I also went to shelter, but putting the leg work in myself got the actual results.

I actually work very well with a specific action plan and have tried to engage the social worker in whether she thinks x, y and z would be good ways to move forward, she will either say she doesn’t know or shrug her shoulders. The lady from IAS tried to get them to be less vague, so that I can do what they feel needs doing. She pointed out the best ways to communicate with me, but they weren’t interested. She isn’t offering further support, as she felt that I need emotional support, rather than anything else. She has her own concerns about my eldest daughter, about her being autistic. She said that if she was involved with her care, she would feel strongly that more support should be offered.

The most support the sw has offered was buying me a sandwich when I was being monitored in hospital. I needed to stay in, but my relatives turned up to look after her, so she wasn’t very pleased about that, as they arrived out of office hours. Despite those two looking after my eldest for over a week and there being no problems and no police problems, they haven’t been considered to look after the girls now, as they’re 150 miles away and work in an ‘incompatible’ environment. I did appreciate the sandwich and thanked her for the help.