Choir disappointment

[nannytothequeen]

This isn't really an AIBU. Cos I probably am. But I don't know where else to post. All my adult life I have derived a lot of pleasure from singing in choirs. I can read music competently and have always been a solid singer. Moved to a new place and joined a choir. No auditions needed. Have a couple of friends singing in another section. Paid my subs. Attended all rehearsals. I have found it a bit cliquey. Most singers are older than me and some much older and have known each other for years. But it doesn't matter when you're singing. In the last couple of weeks I have had some snide comments from other singers about getting something wrong, or not saying the words right or singing too loudly (in the loud bits) or being off key ( that particular criticism was galling because I had stopped singing at that point to try and listen to get it right). I have felt increasingly ganged up on but have largely ignored the comments.

Today I got an email from the choir leader saying that the conductor remains concerned that my voice is not balancing with the others. I didn't know he was concerned. He has never even spoken to me about anything ever. So I have been asked not to take part in the upcoming concert that I have been practicing for. However I am more than welcome to try out next year when all choir members will be auditioned.

AIBU to think fuck that for a game of soldiers? AIBU to be a bit upset? AIBU to think that something I have loved for literally decades has been kind of spoiled ? It sounds pathetic but it is like another rejection after a horrible marriage breakdown after he found another woman in the shape of a former friend and a move to a new place on my own.

Have you considered an online choir @nannytothequeen? A friend of mine leads a choir where the singers are spread all over North America (they are connected by their ancestors coming from the same European area) and everything is done online until they have a concert once or twice a year at a specific location or event. They occasionally tour as well, where they'll have a trip of a week or two somewhere outside of the US/Canada with a few concerts on the way.

Choirs and Orchestras can be quite incestuous, especially at the "good amateur" level.

If you have sung with the Manchester Chorale and are trained its possible your voice doesn't fit because the others are not trained but its also quite possible you are simply better and as a newbie that doesn't go down well. If its amateur with a strong social club component the latter is more likely.

I would speak to the Choir leader again and point out you have had zero feedback from the conductor despite repeat attempts and you expect your subs to be refunded (if applicable).

It might be worth trying one of the groups which isn't your first musical love, in a good choir sometimes you come to love the music through singing it (although I guess you already know that and have factored it in).

I'm not much of a singer but I run choirs in my schools which are non-auditioned as well as singing with one of them, and as a musician, I have played in LOADS of choral concerts. In this part of the world (SW England), there are a couple of ok choirs. However, some of their members think they are in the BBC Singers as they are so up themselves! There is invariably one uber-glamorous soprano who sits on the front row towards the end and moves more during the performance than the conductor. Now I just look and laugh at them, but I am sure it is intimidating to more sensitive and nicer people.

They are also incredibly selfish. When rehearsing an oratorio, we normally do the chorus numbers first so they can piss off and make the tea whilst we rehearse the solo/orchestral parts. Except they don't go. They stand behind me gossiping about Jack Shit and I genuinely can't hear the musicians in front of me or the conductor. If I dare ask them politely to be quiet as we are still rehearsing, I might as well leave town now, such is their indignation. It's not just one choir, it seems a problem all over the place, to the extent that unless I am asked personally , paid a decent fee and get a reserved parking place, I can't be bothered. [The parking space is because I play the largest instrument and also have to bring my own seating.]

It sounds like you've been treated appallingly. Some choirs are horrific. I once sang in a fairly well-known chorus and the elderly women there (who'd all sung there for literally decades) were something else. They'd save seats for each other at concerts using post-it notes and moan every time the conductor did something not to their liking ('well when we sang this with sir Reginald Bottersworthy back in 1942 we certainly didn't accent the dotted semi-quaver in bar 78 humph humph mumble groan' ). It was like being back at primary school. Luckily things are apparently much better now since they did a mass reaudition one year and got rid of some of the worst offenders!

@Malbecfan I am dying to know what instrument you play. Give me a clue!

Oh OP. This sounds horrible. And you sound so lovely. It takes a bit of guts to join a choir after all the knocks you've had, so this is very unfortunate.

I think there are a few possibilities. I am a singer, make money from it etc- but when I've joined choirs, I just can't blend in. It's not that I'm singing loudly, it's just that my voice is unique (in a way that really works when I'm singing solo or in a duet.)

The other thing I noticed in a choir setting is that socially, the music is secondary to most members. They go to meet others and to have a laugh, and anyone who concentrated fully on the music and didn't really make on effort to bond with the other members could spoil the dynamics. This may be especially true of someone with a background in singing in well-known choirs such as yourself.

Do you know anyone who could duet with you? Or a small singing group?

@KnickerBockerAndrew I was completely happy to chat at tea break. And did with a couple of people - there were definite groups though. .

The leader said that the conductor would discuss this with me if I really wanted to and passed on his phone number. I have tried a few times but there is never any answer. I'll probably give up now.

I don’t think you should give up. Is it a mobile number? You could text him and ask him to let you know a time you could call?

If you want to just sing, then join your nearest Rock Choir.
It's inclusive, no auditions, has brilliant directors and a genuine feel good factor about it. They do a lot of performances, but you don't have to perform if you don't want to.

They don't do classical pieces because the is a "no reading music required" imperative, but the harmonies (learned by ear) are marvellous and the arrangements excellent. They have a big social side, and many long term friendships have been formed there.. and sometimes there's cake!

You can go for a weekly rehearsal, belt out your frustrations, and go home feeling that endorphin buzz.

The choir isn't acappella although the warm up exercises are. Don't think I'm especially suffering hearing loss. I'm in my later 40s. And I can hear a kid whispering in class at 100 meters.

I hope I didn't offend you mentioning hearing loss. It's just a possibility to consider if others have made comments about being out of tune. I just mentioned it because I know a couple of cases in amateur orchestras where previously very good players began to play slightly out of tune and it gradually got worse. In one case the leader of the orchestra ended up having to be asked to step aside. It turned out that he did have hearing loss and the out of tune playing was the first sign of it.
But it sounds like that's not relevant in your case!

I think you just happened upon a bitchy, cliquey choir. There are a lot of them around.
I hope you find something else to do with nice people.

I am in a choir and this is not on. I would leave and get another choir. The point of choir is to sing together not become professional performer!

The choir sounds shit, don't let it get to you. They've noticed you are way too good for them, and the only thing they can do to alleviate their own insecurity is making you feel small. It sounds like you would be much more at home, and appreciated, in a choir that actually cares about the quality of its singing and isn't just a social club.

I meant to add - there are bound to be people who have had the same experience with this choir, and with the early music choir if that largely consist of the same people, and who are now not singing as a result. Maybe once you get more settled and make friends you will find those singers, and you could get together and do your own thing without the big characters of the established choirs.

I would have to call and tell them how hurtful they’d been. Nothing worse than bullying.

Malbecfan must be a harpist or a bass player ;)

Ugh OP I'm sorry, these social issues go all the way up into the professional sphere of music and they just fucking ruin it all for me. I used to be a professional musician and the cliquey sniping was easily the worst part of the job. Choirs in particular are awful ( and orchestral string sections). You don't need this choir, they sound like a nightmare!

I'd second the suggestion to start up your own choir. It might just be three of you to start with, but you'll gain a reputation for inclusivity and social nice times if you're careful to stamp on the cliquey bitching and you'll swiftly find yourself popular. You definitely sound like you've got the musicality to do it.

If the early music choir wasn't so full of overlap I'd have urged you to try it out. There's nothing quite so beautiful as early choral music sung well in my opinion :)

No way I would stay. I’m sorry but I would leave.

Im in a choir thats very similar in style to rock choir, and think this is disgraceful. I can't imagine anyone ever being treated like this at our choir. We are a total mixture of abilities from very talented soprano's who've been classically trained and appeared in musical theatre productions, to more pop and rock voiced people and the totally tone deaf -such as myself-. Everone is welcome though.

I echo the sentiment above that maybe you'd feel more welcome at somewhere like a community choir or rock choir where the emphasis is more on having fun than taking it so seriously? We actually have people in our choir who have joined from other choirs because of that.

I think they've handled it very badly, for whatever reason.
If it's your accent, then they could have said that and offered to talk you through how things were pronounced.
If it's your singing is too loud then the conductor could have had a word (along the lines of "Tone it down, altos, you're not sopranos, you know!" ) or even been a bit more subtle about it.

In one of the larger choirs I was in, in the UK, if there was something "off" in a voice section, then our dear conductor would make us sing row by row until he identified which row the "off" sound came from - and then notebash with that row until it was right.

But it sounds like, in your case, it IS personal for whatever reason, even if it's something as simple as your face not fitting - and that just bloody sucks.

I hope you find another choir, or group, to sing with that isn't so bloody rude - maybe even a function band or something? I've done that too.

Good luck - singing is something I can't live without either. x

I experienced similar but after nearly a year of going to rehearsals. Simply didn't return. And now a member of a lovely choir and which has many more opportunities to do things with other choirs and recitals and things

I knew this was going to be about a cliquey choir before I opened the thread. I have been in some awfully cliquey choirs. I bet it's that you're too good, not too bad.

Either set up your own, or look further afield. I hope you find your happy place.

The choir sounds shit - what bullies !
I would be very tempted to email the conductor back and say that you are surprised to hear of concerns as he/she has never mentioned any before or offered you any advice or encouragement.

My DD is pianist and has been accompianist for several choir - and my God they can be cliquey bitchy places.

I would look a little further afield if you can drive somewhere to other choirs. Or maybe look at some organisations that have severaal different interest groups - I'm thinking WI, U3A (think you have to be ove a certain age) that my well have a choir.
I would completely disregard any spiteful comments about your singing - you clearly have the qualifictaions to sing and really who are the other choir members to judge ?
I've also been in the shitty situation of having a long term marriage end because I was dumed for another owman - it really really messes with your confidence and you feel so rejected an worthless. But you have to build yourself up - you are not the bad person in all this, you've been treated badly, bt don;t let that make you feel as if you have nothing to offer. It takes time - but you have to take little steps to build yoru confidence again.
I'm sure there is a choir somewhere near you that would be thrilled to have you join. Ask around in music shops, try ringing music teachers ( they often run a choir as a side line)try your local churches of all denominations ( you don't have to be religious)
Good luck - I hope you find something to enjoy - as my friends told me when I was down - keep buggering on, you will get there

Handled terribly badly.

Sounds like there’s a lack of the choir you’d like, would you feel up to starting your own? Worth a try!

I had a very large life saving surgery earlier this year and I sometimes struggle with my breathing compared to before.

Just read this - if you have had chest surgery you may have sustained damage to, or stretching of, your recurrent laryngeal nerves. These innervate all of the laryngeal muscles except for one (the cricothyroid muscle which regulates vocal fold tension). You probably know that voice control is very complex - it may be that you have lost some voice quality without being aware of it. Unless the nerve is severed (very rare) it usually spontaneously recovers - can take about 6 months or so.

However, this doesn't excuse the way the choir members are behaving towards you.

I'd echo the idea of starting your own choir. They have treated you absolutely terribly.

OP I Hope you’re feeling a bit better now. Honestly please don’t let them get to you. Adults can be horrible, worse than small children when they’re noses are out of joint. Guaranteed a lot of this is down to jealousy.
When I was about 10 I loved dancing and was good at it. I danced at competitions, did little song and dance routines, appeared in the occasional Argos catalog as a toy model. It was just for fun. We moved to a much more remote area where the dance school offered less intense training but had a hardcore of local mums and kids who had been there years and they were so horrible to me (the adults ! Not the kids !) and eventually all went to the lady who ran the school saying I didn’t fit in the dances and to take me out etc. As an adult it is glaringly obvious it was jealousy! So basically what I’m trying to say is that people are bizarre, and please don’t let them mess with your head !