Choir disappointment

[nannytothequeen]

This isn't really an AIBU. Cos I probably am. But I don't know where else to post. All my adult life I have derived a lot of pleasure from singing in choirs. I can read music competently and have always been a solid singer. Moved to a new place and joined a choir. No auditions needed. Have a couple of friends singing in another section. Paid my subs. Attended all rehearsals. I have found it a bit cliquey. Most singers are older than me and some much older and have known each other for years. But it doesn't matter when you're singing. In the last couple of weeks I have had some snide comments from other singers about getting something wrong, or not saying the words right or singing too loudly (in the loud bits) or being off key ( that particular criticism was galling because I had stopped singing at that point to try and listen to get it right). I have felt increasingly ganged up on but have largely ignored the comments.

Today I got an email from the choir leader saying that the conductor remains concerned that my voice is not balancing with the others. I didn't know he was concerned. He has never even spoken to me about anything ever. So I have been asked not to take part in the upcoming concert that I have been practicing for. However I am more than welcome to try out next year when all choir members will be auditioned.

AIBU to think fuck that for a game of soldiers? AIBU to be a bit upset? AIBU to think that something I have loved for literally decades has been kind of spoiled ? It sounds pathetic but it is like another rejection after a horrible marriage breakdown after he found another woman in the shape of a former friend and a move to a new place on my own.

Actually my English accent could be a thing almost most of the songs are in Latin or Italian. I really don't think I can do the early music choir. Too much cross over with the original choir.

I had a friend who had a bad experience with one choir- he felt really ganged up on.

It is worth trying another choir/singing group, am sure you can find one or two. Best wishes xxx

Are you by any chance in Spain? I have musical daughters and we have had au pairs come to us who have been to European conservatories (in Spain and elsewhere. I just said Spain because of the early music reference.) They have joined local music groups in the UK and often had a rough ride (likely self-induced- no one ever asked them to leave a group.) One was convinced the conductor hated her, the other felt that she was the bee's knees and all training in the UK was rubbish. Nothing could compare to Berlin etc. Noses turned up HIGH in the air. I wouldn't mention the Grade 8 qualification if it's Europe - IME this will have no impact and may prompt more snidey remarks.

If you are in a European country I think there could be a cultural dynamic going on - unfortunately. Is there a group that attracts more expats? In short, I agree it's so

I agree it's a turf war.

I haven't and wouldn't mention the grade 8 thing. It's not especially relevant apart from showing that I have musical knowledge. I'm not in Europe btw.

I also sing in a local non auditioned choir. It has a lot of info on the website about the standards expected and the music we sing. There have been a couple of cases where people have been asked to stop coming but this was done by the conductor/director face to face and certainly not on the say so of other choir members. Given your musical experience and the fact that you have been upset by this, I would have another shot at getting in touch with the conductor. Explain what experience you have and detail the things you have told us about the criticisms and say you welcome the chance to prove that you can be a valuable member of the choir. Maybe you could sing for the conductor or they could place a neutral choir member next to you to “listen in”.

I don't care too much about the choir. I just want to sing! (Perhaps not early music though). And I have not even mentioned the Grade 8 or the other choirs thing either. I'm not in the UK so choirs are thin on the ground. The local audition choir is the early music choir. And other towns are a long way away. Nearest town of any size is 80 miles away and over a mountain range. Nearest proper city is 6 hours drive over a high altitude mountain pass!

Are you in the Alps by any chance?
I have experience of British choirs and Austrian choirs. The latter are even more cliquey than British ones.
I don't want to go into too much detail here because I don't want to out myself...if you want some more info PM me.
The problem could be that you have had singing training (to grade 8) and have sung in some good British choirs. You are probably somewhere where hardly anyone in the choir has had any kind of singing lessons at all. Your voice probably sticks out like a sore thumb - way more than if you were in an equivalent British choir. A lot of British choirs train their singers during the rehearsals with exercises etc - the choir you are in may not do this at all. People learn the songs and sing them but without any additional vocal training.

The out of tune thing....couple of possibilities spring to mind.
a) someone was just being nasty
b) Is the choir acapella? Without proper vocal training acapella choirs go flat during the song. You might be maintaining the pitch, thereby ending up sharp relative to the others.
c) How old are you? Is it possibly the start of hearing loss that maybe you can't quite hear the notes as you once used to? (I think this is unlikely by the way as you say the others are a lot older than you)

I think you have been treated badly. For whatever reason, they don't want you to sing with them. Send an email asking or a refund on the subs and walk away head held high.

What about starting your own vocal trio "Dreigesang". If you're in a German speaking country there is absolutely loads of music you could tackle. Or a quartet SATB. I'm sure you'll find others who would like to do this.
I work with a lot of choirs and small groups and the smaller groups are often really excellent - some of them also include instrumentals in their performances - so you could play introductions and interludes on your instruments and maybe others in the group could too.

BTW, the choirs I work with here are constantly changing - groups split off and form other choirs. Problematical long term members "disappear". New people join. The aforementioned long term members pop up again. Mr X swaps choirs 3 times in a year. Ms Y gets pissed off and starts her own choir and makes a massive success of it....

Don't let it get you down and as I said if you want a chat you can pm me.

Oops cross posted - you're not in Europe!

That's really weird to ask someone in a no audition choir not to sing in a concert! My choir has people who really sing quite badly, but no-one's ever told they shouldn't be singing! I would look for another choir if I were you, this one doesn't sound friendly at all and I can't imagine you would ever be able to forget the bad start and enjoy it.

I'm so sorry to hear of your experience, they sound like a unpleasant lot. I joined a ladies a'cappella choir nearly four years ago. I had sung in school choirs and as a member of an am dram group but hadn't done anything for some years. I found it difficult at first but now I love it. The ladies were very welcoming and my section have become real friends. Not everyone is a proficient singer or can read music but we manage, and it's great fun. We do local shows and sing for societies and even attended a Ladies Barbershop Convention last year. Try the barbershop group. If they are as nice as my choir, you'll have a lovely time. Keep singing, it's good for you!

Choirs can be horrid places - I was in one (auditioned, but I don't think anyone ever failed the audition) where the committee were so cliquey and unfriendly to new members, unless they had introduced them to the choir! I left in the end and found a friendlier place, but that was (long story) partly because they were hassling me to pay the second half of my subscription when my partner was in intensive care - I hadn't been to any of the rehearsals for that term...

Also lots of politics in our church choir at the moment, leading to groups of people (okay, sopranos) counting who has had more solos/been given an opportunity when they haven't, and upsetting the director of music. It's really off-putting when all you want to do is sing.

I'm not really selling the group music thing, but keep trying with other choirs if possible, though, because it's worth it when all goes well!

I wouldn't let them get away with it so easily. So I'd call them out on it and say what you've siad here that they are effectively asking you to leave. Make it awkward! Then find a nice community Choir. They sound awful and not like people yiu want to be around.

This sounds awful!

Amateur choirs (especially those which don't require an audition) are just that - amateur!

I've been in a couple and I don't have a voice to speak of, just a love of singing. Both times the choirmaster has guided each of us to get the best out of our voices. As I say, I am not a good singer given big enough bucket I can carry a tune - but some of the voices in the choirs I was in were truly awful - but as long as they weren't out of tune/ flat it seems to get subsumed in the okay (and occasionally very-good-indeed) voices.

I think that they've behaved very badly towards you - it seems that for whatever reason, your face doesn't fit and they are effectively forcing you out. But it is spiteful and demeaning, and I think that unfortunately following your betrayal by your exH and your ex-friend you are particularly vulnerable.

I hope you find another choir soon - your local library (if you are still lucky enough to have one) may be able to help you with this.

The choir isn't acappella although the warm up exercises are. Don't think I'm especially suffering hearing loss. I'm in my later 40s. And I can hear a kid whispering in class at 100 meters. There are a few ladies in the choir with hearing aides however but I'm not one of them. My only weakness is that I had a very large life saving surgery earlier this year and I sometimes struggle with my breathing compared to before. My surgeon did say that I had very impressive diaphragm control and that is entirely down to my long history of singing. It's not yet back to where it was but it is improving.

That's a real shame. Choir members sound bitchy and the conductor - who knows whether he has a point? But it sounds like you can sing and you know what you're doing. I'd reply to him and say you're very surprised and upset about this as he's not mentioned any issues beofre. Say that nobody has to audition and why you? Ask specifically how your voice is not balancing. Ask for examples.

I can't believe he's asked you not to perform at their concert!!!!

Then I'd say that since other choir members have been so bitchy, you are leaving and will not reocmmend the choir to anyone else.

Singing is meant to be fun. They sound awful. If they have a point about anything there are much better ways of letting you know.

I've been in a couple and I don't have a voice to speak of, just a love of singing. Both times the choirmaster has guided each of us to get the best out of our voices. As I say, I am not a good singer given big enough bucket I can carry a tune - but some of the voices in the choirs I was in were truly awful - but as long as they weren't out of tune/ flat it seems to get subsumed in the okay (and occasionally very-good-indeed) voices.

Yes this is me and my choir experience too. I met DH in a choir 30 years ago. The accompanist at that time was very religious and wouldn’t do stuff like Carmina Burana as he thought it was profane! Also had two blind members with their guide dogs who would join in the singing occasionally.

What a horrible experience. I'm in a choir and while a few cliques have formed- it's a large group anyway so makes sense to have smaller groups within it - we are still friendly and non critical. I would leave and ask for your money back personally as it's been such an unpleasant experience.
Join a new choir if you can, dont give up!

Could it be that you are more qualified than the choir leader and the clique? And they feel threatened by that?

Really sorry to hear this op. Ive been in bitchy choirs amd can remember 2 women in particluar being singled out by the queen bee soprano, with others falling in line, simply because she didnt like them. She was quite glam and they weren't. There was nothing wrong with their singing.

It's definitely them, not you. Not sure what to suggest though. Finding s better choir would be best but doesn't sound that easy for you. Start your own singing group maybe?

shatner's wig have you heard this one?
How many sopranos does it take to change a lightbulb?
Just the one; she holds it and the world turns around her......

I'm no singer but on the face of what you're saying it would seem to be jealousy and/or your vocals making theirs look bad!

I would send an email asking for a refund and also expressing my disappointment. It's all been handled in a very weasley way and that's not fair. Hope you find a nicer crowd to sing with.

I think you're better off out of out. The other members sound horrible – following you to your car to criticise you? – and the conductor 'remaining concerned' when you've never been spoken to about it before is passive-aggressive. The leader sounds spineless too; rather than just relaying his messages she should have talked to him about his 'concerns' and asked why they hadn't been made clear before.

I'd email and ask for a refund of any outstanding money and list all the ways in which they've all behaved badly. And then fuck em.

out of it.

I would definitely check out local churches if you aren't adverse to it. Certainly in the UK they are always crying out for volunteers to get involved in the music side of things.

I would message the choir leader and explain what you have experienced and also demand a refund on your subs if you are going to be excluded.

I left a choir because they were fucking awful to me about sititng in the wrong place after I had missed a rehearsal to attend my mother's funeral. I sent the choir leader a forthright (though polite and accurate) exit letter explaining that if they didn't want their choir to age itself into non-existence they would need to find a way to be kind and welcoming to younger memebrs. I received a refund and also apologies from several of the individuals who had been arses.

For your own peace of mind I'd book a singing lesson with someone who specialises in the right kind of singing. Check whether there are any issues.