To think most men actually don't really want kids?

[Thickums]

Interesting discussion with my friends last night about dating/contraception/children.

We were talking about how a lot of men do say they 'want' kids, but its more of in the way that they'd like a trip to a hawaii or a ferrari. It seems nice to have/do but not much thought past that? If women didn't push having babies then would human race would rapidly decline?

By this i mean, when 'ttc', men just seem to passively go along with it. If women were to be as passive as men then we couldn't really see men 'stepping up', by researching ovulation days, asking to dtd on certain days and then going to the GP entirley off their own back if they didn't get a bfp after a few months of trying.

We then also wondered how long it would actually take men generally to start really pushing the baby issue if women were passive and stopped using protection but didnt actively try either. If women kicked back and carried on living life without much discussion of ttc and just let things happen. Would men keep bringing up actively ttc? Or would they generally just coast along along with their female partners until its too late if pregnancy didn't occur and then just shrug their shoulders that it didn't happen?

If that is the case, then is that why men find it so much easier to walk away from kids? Or dont feel generally as responsible for them? Because they actually weren't all that bothered to begin with. They just go along with having a baby because it's what people do, but not many men actively and purposefully really yearn for it?

Be interested to hear others thoughts amd experiences on this!!

My DH doesn’t want the stress added to ttc (our second) so I don’t tell him the info. it’s not exactly romantic is it, he’ll think we’re only having sex to make a baby and that’s gotta hurt.

When a new parent brings a baby into work I pretty much ignore it, (and so do other women) coz I am not particularly interested in some random work colleagues baby. It's not just MEN who ignore babies they don't even know.

I'm the same, Never had a biological urge to have kids and got pregnant through contraceptive failure. It wasn't until my son reached mid teens that I found any other kid but him interesting. However our lack of not enjoying babies isn't the point of this thread. The point is that where people do want them, or coo over them, it's generally women. Just not us

I think a lot of men want kids but at some distant point in the future (more the idea of having kids than the reality) and panic at the thought of it happening too soon. I know loads of men like this including my own DH. I'm older than him so really had to fight to start our family earlier than he wanted (I was 35 and getting stressed!). Of course there are plenty of men who seriously want kids. My own brother started his family aged 22 and had several children simply because he loves kids and being a dad.

My experience was that my dp wanted our dc as much as I did. And he wants to actively parent them, not leave it all to me.

I do think society encourages men not to see themselves as directly responsible for dc in the way women are.

Among my friends and colleagues I've heard of more relationship issues where the man wants DC young but the woman wants to concentrate on her career first, than women who want children when their partners don't

I agree, my DH was happy just the two of us, I wanted children, we had two, and he has been the most brilliant dad.

I think it makes sense also that it’s women who take the lead on active TTC methods like OPKs and tracking, given that it’s happening to our bodies and we’re the ones who can pee on a stick! Would be a little strange for a guy to initiate the whole right, let’s start using OPKs talk when it’s his partner who has to actually do it.

Having said that I lurk on a TTC forum and notice that for the vast majority of couples actively trying, the guy is just as involved and enthusiastic as the woman, some have the same tracking app downloaded so they can both see fertile days and where they’re at in a cycle, lots of stories about the guy being chuffed he’s gotten good at noticing different types of cervical fluid or being happy to help input temperatures each morning if temping to confirm ovulation.

VenusTiger ah, you’ve not got to the point yet of having sex you wouldn’t otherwise fancy just because it’s within your fertile window? 😂 I hate the way there’s all this pressure when actively TTC for the woman to do so much legwork around tracking and temping, OPKs and monitoring cervical fluid, while also simultaneously having to keep up the facade that every time they have sex it’s purely because they’re horny rather than just being open about the fact that they’re in their fertile window, it just seems like a bigger burden on her and I often think if she can go through all of that to maximise their chances of a baby surely her partner can put up with knowing that sometimes sex is just a means to an end rather than worrying about his ego. When we were trying there were times when we both knew full well we were having sex purely because I was about to ovulate when we’d much rather have just both gone to sleep instead. I had a lot of respect for DH being fine with knowing that and being happy to deliver the goods, after all it went both ways and I had sex I wasn’t hugely bothered about either.

I do think society encourages men not to see themselves as directly responsible for dc in the way women are.

I agree, stompy. The whole parental leave thing for example, men must receive the message that they’re kinda superfluous to requirements, the mother child dyad is crucial but he can go back to work after sometimes just a week. It sets that tone from the beginning.

I see so many miserable sahd's, waking around pushing buggies with one hand and looking at their phones
That's not only sahd's. I see mums sitting the park on their phones looking bored out of their skulls. Pushing a buggy down the road is not interesting. Neither is sitting in the park for hours on end. Those dads may not even be sahd's. They just may be dads, pushing a buggy.

My DH didn’t have DC with his ex-wife as he thought she wouldn’t make a good mother and wasn’t prepared to co-parent with her. When we got together 10 yrs later he was keen to have children and as delighted as me at the first BFP. I think he would have stopped at 1/2 children though whereas I wanted more (so we had more!)

He loves them as much as I do and is a very hands on parent.

No not true in my experience.

hate the way there’s all this pressure when actively TTC for the woman to do so much legwork around tracking and temping, OPKs and monitoring cervical fluid
But these are things happening to womens bodies. I would find it a bit weird and controlling if a man was monitoring my temperature and cervical fluid! When I was ttc, I told DH when my fertile period was. I didn't pretend it wasnt my fertile time but just felt horny. I'd imagine e the only people who would do that would be someone trying to get pregnant without their partner's consent.

My own experience with DH is that he loves being a dad and although not planned, is very excited about DC2. We planned DC1 and he was very much as broody as I was.

But from friends experiences, ones DP is absolutely 1000000% adamant they're not having another (have 1 DC already) and we think they will split up over it soon as she is desperate. And the other is only agreeing to TTC so he gets more regular sex with his DW, he doesn't actually want another kid.

noodlenosefraggle the sentence you quoted only conveys my point with the other stuff I said around it! I meant more that I hate the way women do all that but also are expected to hide the fertile window from their partners.

It is rubbish though wendy. It’s a sweeping generalisation that in a vast majority of cases just isn’t true

Actually you dismissed what I said as "absolute rubbish" in your first post directed at me. You know what absolute means don't you? What I said simply wasn't absolute rubbish hence the many responses agreeing with the OP on this thread and the many threads describing unwilling and unengaged fathers not to mention the multiple fathers who abandon and do not financially support their children. You can disagree with what I said but you can't dismiss it as "absolute rubbish" because it isn't

My DH made it abundantly clear he didn’t want children. After 6 years together he actively discussed it and planned it. We now have 2 DC’s and he is brilliant with them. Given how many people there are in the world I think it’s safe to say that everyone is different and doesn’t mean one gender is any better at decision making than the other. Different priorities maybe?

I’m not sure it is that different for men v women, but society still expects women to be parents where as it’s more widely acceptable for men not to want children. It is changing thankfully, but not fast enough. Women are still asked when they are having children, why they don’t want them etc, men don’t get asked the same.

I never spent a single second considering if I wanted children, if someone had asked me it would have been a most definite no. As much as I love my son, he’s amazing, funny and kind, parenting doesn’t at all come naturally to me and there are too many sacrifices. It I could go back three years I genuinely don’t know if I would still say yes to taking him on. Which I know sounds awful.

I have one male friend who is currently getting divorced as his wife has decided she no longer wants children, I have female friends who have been through similar. I also know a few sahd’s who can’t wait to have more children.

My DH did not particularly want children and I don’t think if it had been left entirely to him we would have any.

Thanks for the oh so patronising semantics lesson Wendy

Although i still think it's absolute rubbish though.

I do think society encourages men not to see themselves as directly responsible for dc in the way women are.

I think some women play a large part in this encouragement. We see lots of threads where separated women with babies are concerned that their ex will get granted overnights and the overriding response is that no judge will order a child to be away from the prime caregiver which is generally the mother as she's given birth, even if no longer bf'ing. That's biology and no one can argue with that but it does give the message to the father that his role is lesser. I think that in part defines how fathers see their involvement moving forward.

True in my experience. I obviously know there are plenty of men who actively want to be dads and are great at it, but I haven't met any, except for one. The rest either went along with their partners' wishes to have a baby or are deadbeats.

The differences are quite obvious, imo. Deadbeat dad? Quite usual. No one bats an eyelid much. Shit? Shit. But so what. Deadbeat mum? There aren't that many. But if a woman actively chooses to leave her kids to her ex-husband/partner and be a 'Disney mum' or just bugger off completely - she gets absolutely crucified. And usually by other women.

Also fathers 'helping mummy with the kids' - can't count how many times I've heard this, nauseating. Yep, my environment must be shit, I know, but it is how it is.

“ "Ape women?" By checking the kids eat properly or have a bag packed for school? Do you mean all those day to day practical/nurturing considerations? ”

No, I don’t mean that.

“ plus the amount of men I hear moaning about post pregnancy bodies is vile.”

I have never heard a man make any such comment, ever. I do see and hear women obsessing about it And judging other women, in real life and in the media.

StreetwiseHercules I’ve heard it numerous times from men I’ve worked with , plus an ex BF telling me how he couldn’t have sex with his wife a few.
Months after his wife had given birth. It really shocked me.

Thanks for the oh so patronising semantics lesson Wendy

You're more than welcome.

Although i still think it's absolute rubbish though

Well you know what they say about opinions don't you?