To think most men actually don't really want kids?

[Thickums]

Interesting discussion with my friends last night about dating/contraception/children.

We were talking about how a lot of men do say they 'want' kids, but its more of in the way that they'd like a trip to a hawaii or a ferrari. It seems nice to have/do but not much thought past that? If women didn't push having babies then would human race would rapidly decline?

By this i mean, when 'ttc', men just seem to passively go along with it. If women were to be as passive as men then we couldn't really see men 'stepping up', by researching ovulation days, asking to dtd on certain days and then going to the GP entirley off their own back if they didn't get a bfp after a few months of trying.

We then also wondered how long it would actually take men generally to start really pushing the baby issue if women were passive and stopped using protection but didnt actively try either. If women kicked back and carried on living life without much discussion of ttc and just let things happen. Would men keep bringing up actively ttc? Or would they generally just coast along along with their female partners until its too late if pregnancy didn't occur and then just shrug their shoulders that it didn't happen?

If that is the case, then is that why men find it so much easier to walk away from kids? Or dont feel generally as responsible for them? Because they actually weren't all that bothered to begin with. They just go along with having a baby because it's what people do, but not many men actively and purposefully really yearn for it?

Be interested to hear others thoughts amd experiences on this!!

I think in general you are right. Of course people are going to come on and say 'oh no totally wrong, my DH wouldn't do that' etc. But really, can they be certain? Look at how many families split up and the dad is a weekend dad, sometimes not even that. It's not often you see dad's getting custody unless the mother doesn't give a crap or is pretty useless. You can never be certain with people, look how many people thought their partners wouldn't cheat and they did. People will do things in anger they wouldn't normally do.

Yeah my partner would like kids and I'm not bothered. But he, like your op, has no clue about the time and cost that goes into having children. I do, hence why I'm reluctant. Maybe in the future when we are better off we could but for now no. I don't think men in general think about these things, some women don't either though to be fair. Look how many families keep having children, unable to afford the ones they have.

I disagree, my DH wants more children than I do. He has far more desire to keep having children than me.

Me and my partner have never tried for a baby all of ours were errrrm ‘surprises’. So I can’t comment on how he felt about ttc, however I know for a full and absolute fact he wouldn’t give birth not a chance, he’s no wimp but I know he’s think it was a fuck on 😂

He’s a brilliant dad though

Of course men want children. There's less urgency for them (due to the longer fertility window), and probably a greater desire to establish oneself financially before having children (because this is still something society largely expects of men).

Nope. Purely anecdotally, in our friendship group it’s been the man who has wanted kids in EVERY couple we know. The woman hasn’t been too bothered, but sees kids somewhere in the hazy future, but the man has insisted it actually happen NOW.
Women’s lives change completely when they have kids, whereas for men, not so much!
I also see a lot of ‘empire building’ with the men we know. A friend’s husband is really pushing for a 3rd at the moment, just as she’s getting her career back on track and excited about the future, but he doesn’t lift a FINGER with the two they've already got.

Not my experience. DH had a stronger drive for children than me.

I think women often push men out and take away ownership and therefore responsibility of the child and that's why men find it easier to walk away. They aren't made to understand that the baby is as much theirs to raise as the mother's and their views and experiences count just as much.

I sort of get where you are coming from but I can’t say it’s the case in my experience or people around me either. Men obviously aren’t going to be testing for ovulation etc as it isn’t something that is happening to them personally, but they do have a similar desire to have children. Their role is obviously different. My husband has always wanted children, we had the children chat in passing not long into our relationship (over 10 years before we actually had children) so we knew we were on the same page. I asked years later if he’d have stayed with me if I didn’t want children and he said no probably not. So to say that men just aren’t bothered isn’t true.

In my experience, YABU. My husband wanted to TTC years before I did and then when I was ready he did research ovulation and conception and made it really easy for me.
My brother and his wife have been TTC for a few years and have had miscarriages. They totally devastated my brother, not as much as my sil obviously, but he was, and still is, very affected by them.

DH really wanted to have a baby and if I had not wanted any children it certainly would have been a dealbreaker to him!

I accidentally got pregnant with DS on a very bad timing and whilst I had my doubts if to keep the baby, DH insisted from the first moment on that we were going to make it work. And we did.

Btw, he is a great father and takes up a large part of the parenting, even doing all the night feedings when I was struggling with PND, so I could sleep and feel better.

When I met my DP he was desperate for kids, he was super broody. I already had one child and was quite happy as I was, but it was a deal breaker for him.
I stayed with him, decided I would actually quite like another now I had the opportunity (I'd been a single mum for years and thought it would never happen again, and that didn't phase me) and we now have a DS. My DP did say it was a hell of a lot harder than he ever imagined, and went from wanting 4! To been ok with just our two

But I get what your saying about some men, I definitely think it's a smaller minority though. My dad actively tried with my mum to have me and my brother but happily walked away from his kids, he already had one he didn't see from a ex, I think he just went along with it because its what my mum wanted and when they split he wasn't that fussed about his kids and went off to live his life free and single!

Lots of men have multiple families don't they?

For some guys, this is a sign of being perfectly willing to abandon families, not a sign of wanting one.

Generally children are a status symbol/ literal sign of virility.

Then what they want is a status symbol, not a child.

Being literal, wanting a child means:

• wanting a tiny shitting sleep thief for a couple of years
• wanting to teach that baby to do literally everything, and enjoy the process of doing so
• wanting to raise a child of 5, 6, 7, 8 etc...
• wanting to put their needs second to the child's needs at all those stages

To be honest, I think a lot of women don't want all of the above! Sure, the majority will decide that it's worth the while, but I think if everyone thought it through in real detail, it wouldn't come up as sounding like a great idea!

DH wanted kids - would "emotionally" like more now though practically agrees it's a bad idea.

When we had our first what I found surprising was how broody many of his male colleagues actually were.

I do think many men are surprisingly ignorant about reproduction and time limits - even men are less fertile with age and it is very surprising how many do find it easy to walk away when their relationships break down.

Really surprised by this, my husband was desperate for children and still has fantasies of 4 (we have 2, I’m nearly 40 ) we met at 18 and he told me he wanted them at 25, I made him wait until 35 as I wasn’t ready.

I know lots of men who really wanted children.

I agree. I think most women nag their partners to have children but most men aren't really bothered and feel pressured into it.

I'd say most men want children but most men dont want to do the leg work.

In couples where both say they dont want children, it tends to be the man who changes his mind (around 40) and decides to go off with another woman.

Seeing the number of fathers who are not actually properly involved with their dcs, and I include fathers who are still living with their DW and dc, then I would say you are right.
Or if they do, it’s like a trophée or what they were supposed to do rather than what they REALLY wanted,

I mean to start with, if you really w t a child/baby, you should fight to be able to look age said baby, put them in bed, spend time holding them whilst they sleep with etc... No??

The only ones who seem to be really keen that I can see seem to be men who have a totally unrealistic idea of the reality of child rearing or who are safe in the knowledge that their partner will do the majority of it. That's my opinion but I accept I tend to be over-cynical. I do also know a lot of women who don't want kids as well for the record.

But yes I certainly know men with kids who didn't want them. I do not feel sorry for them as they should have been honest about it, even if it meant ending the relationship instead of just being passive.

Cloverbeauty, yes I can definitely 100% say that my DH wanted to be a dad. Not only the way he was when we were TTC and the disappointment I saw in his face everytime I did a test and it was negative but also how he is as a father.

I think it's such a shame for women (who've mostly had bad experiences in relationships and shared parenting) to lump men into a group and say they mostly don't want to be fathers and how the women saying their DH's or DP's really did must somehow be mistaken because it's impossible that any man would want to be a father..

Btw, he is a great father and takes up a large part of the parenting, even doing all the night feedings when I was struggling with PND, so I could sleep and feel better.

Isn’t that normal though rather than the sign this guy is great?
This is a father who is looking after his own child by getting up at night. And he is also a husband who is supporting his DW whilst she is ill (from having a baby he really wanted). Isn’t that normal for him that he would support her by easing the load until she gets better?

I’m not saying that he isn’t a great father. I’m sure he is. I’m just annoyed by the double standards and how men can look amazing fo doing things that are taken for granted when women do them.

Sadly, in my circle of friends I see many men who really aren’t that bothered about their children once the relationship has broken up - as mother I cannot comprehend how some men just seem to stop caring about the children in this way and simply move on with their lives.

I’m with you OP - I think a lot of men aren’t too fussed about having children but probably go along with it because their partner wants one or they feel like it’s the “next step” in a relationship but then when the children actually arrive they just aren’t that bothered.

I think it's just because men don't have a time limit on having kids, whereas for women, if we want more than one, we really do have to start when we're quite young.. whereas for men, they could conceive a child before they drop dead at the age of 100!

The men I know who have had kids might not have pushed for them, but they were still thrilled when their partners got pregnant, and have been completely devoted to their children ever since.

I think lots of men like the idea of fatherhood - to prove their "man-hood", but they don't like the realities of the hard work, cost, lack of intimacy with their wife, giving up hobbies, etc.

That sums up my nephew anyway. But I knew what he was like. He was never going to be a "family man" as he liked his sports, pub & club outings, etc too much. He was all over facebook when his first child arrived, saying how wonderful it was, lots of family pictures, etc., but he soon grew tired and ended up buggering off with another young girl, and history repeated itself, even down to the facebook posts, and even down to buggering off again with yet another young girl. Just waiting for the announcement for number 3 on facebook!

Men are a mixed bag, of course.

Some desperately want children, some don't at all, some don't mind and go along with whatever their partner prefers to keep her happy, some end up being parents through carelessness, some do it because of the expectation.

I'd also say that there isn't necessarily a contradiction between wanting a child and thinking all the associated shitwork is Woman Stuff. You can be an objectively crap parent and still have very much wanted your children, and I've come across multiple people fitting into this category.