To think most men actually don't really want kids?

[Thickums]

Interesting discussion with my friends last night about dating/contraception/children.

We were talking about how a lot of men do say they 'want' kids, but its more of in the way that they'd like a trip to a hawaii or a ferrari. It seems nice to have/do but not much thought past that? If women didn't push having babies then would human race would rapidly decline?

By this i mean, when 'ttc', men just seem to passively go along with it. If women were to be as passive as men then we couldn't really see men 'stepping up', by researching ovulation days, asking to dtd on certain days and then going to the GP entirley off their own back if they didn't get a bfp after a few months of trying.

We then also wondered how long it would actually take men generally to start really pushing the baby issue if women were passive and stopped using protection but didnt actively try either. If women kicked back and carried on living life without much discussion of ttc and just let things happen. Would men keep bringing up actively ttc? Or would they generally just coast along along with their female partners until its too late if pregnancy didn't occur and then just shrug their shoulders that it didn't happen?

If that is the case, then is that why men find it so much easier to walk away from kids? Or dont feel generally as responsible for them? Because they actually weren't all that bothered to begin with. They just go along with having a baby because it's what people do, but not many men actively and purposefully really yearn for it?

Be interested to hear others thoughts amd experiences on this!!

I think when men do want children, they don't want the hard work, vomit, poo and slog that comes with 95% of child rearing. They want the mini-me boys to play football with, little people they can mould into little replicas of themselves, the tiny people they can spend 20 minutes giving piggy backs to before buggering off to read the paper.

In short - they want children as long as fatherhood is easy.

Well I am the bloke in your scenario then. Very ambivalent about kids and wouldn't even be considering the possibility if it were not for the fact that DH wants them (my old thread explains, so I won't rehash here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3392742-To-have-a-child-when-I-have-zero-interest-in-caring-for-a-baby)
I think more women have kids just because their partners want them than people realise, as it is not as socially acceptable to admit that you are not keen on motherhood.

gunpowder That doesn't describe the men and fathers I know.
I think that's what society thinks men want/are like but there are a huge number of brilliant dads out there who get involved in all aspects of parenthood and wanted to be parents.

My DH was desperate for kids and has been a fantastic dad since day one. His brothers, friends etc are all the same.
Those that aren't like this are talked about in tones of disgust. In my social circle it's just not acceptable to be a shit dad.

by researching ovulation days, asking to dtd on certain days

That sort of nonsense is just modern faffing about anyway. A man, and people in the past, would just have sex every day and a baby would in most cases just turn up. Defining specific days to have sex to get pregnant is just an excuse to do it as little as needed

I suspect that in general more women than men are keen to have children, but there are obviously exceptions.

I remember a couple of friends splitting up in their early 20s because she made it very clear that she never wanted children whereas he knew that he would want them one day. I lost touch with him so don't know whether he ever had children, but over 30 years on, she never did.

busybarbara

Nice bait.

Actually @StripeyTopRedLips, I think it was rather poor bait.

Must try harder next time @busybarbara

Lol at Barbara!

Or they want a boy to carry on the family name and to do sport with.

Do you really think men prefer boys? My DH said he'd be genuinely happy with either sex as long as the child was healthy (and as it turns out, we're having a girl).

I suppose a reason for this is that it is not really for the man to decide when he wants children, because at the end of the day it is up to the woman. Fiancé for example says he would like to learn to drive. True it would make life easier if one of us could drive (i can't though I have tried taking lessons) but I never brought up the subject again because it is his choice to make. We both agree we want ttc in the new year after the wedding but at the end of the day I have to be the one to initiate it as I am the one giving birth and carrying it around for the next 9 months etc.

There might be a small percent who desperatly want kids but I think if men had to have the babies and give birth, then we would not be nearly as populated on this planet.

Haven’t read whole thread but I agree with OP. I only know one man who was more keen to have DC than his DW.

DH loves DC but I know deep down that he would still enjoy his life and would be ok if we’d remained childless.

I also think that many men find it easier to not see their kids or not see them often, whether it’s for biological or societal reasons I don’t know. DH would fight tooth and nail to see the kids if we ever split up but he’d be at ease with a 50/50 or weekends type arrangement unlike me who’d be fighting for full custody.

In the past men were able to get women to have children because
1-lack of access to contraception and abortion
2-lack of access to the job market and other ways of getting on in life compared to men meant that the best option was probably to attach yourself to a man and have children with him.
Statistics show that as societies modernise and women gain more rights they increasingly make the calculation that having babies is not the best option for them.
If you have a good chance of a good career where you can have earning power, the esteem of your peers and status in society why would you throw that away?

Men have been able to keep women busy producing children only by blocking off their access to better options.

In my circles it's the men who are more interested in having children than the women, and it's DPs male friends who have made the most effort to spend time with DD. A lot of the women we know are intending to stay child free, whereas most of the men seem open to the idea or enthusiastic rather than against.

I have to say I agree - my DH has always wanted children and is a great dad but as a generalisation I’d think it fair to say that women are possibly more geared towards wanting a family - probably because from the moment we hit puberty and start having periods our hormones are screaming at us to reproduce.

Add to that our social programming from an early age and it’s little surprise.

That’s not to say NO men fall into the bracket of wanting children desperately, but from my own experiences I’d say it does usually fall to the woman in a relationship.

Another thing I’ve noticed in my area is that a lot of new dads seem really keen when the baby is tiny and then less keen when the child gets beyond toddler stage. Almost like the novelty has worn off.

I’ve lived in the area for many years and have seen lots of men proudly sitting in the local pub with prams or babies in slings but then when the kids hit a certain stage I see those kids mainly out and about with DM. It’s almost like the dad needs to show off his virility for a bit and then it drops off.

Of course I’m not saying it’s all men or even most but it’s definitely a thing I’ve seen.