To think most men actually don't really want kids?

[Thickums]

Interesting discussion with my friends last night about dating/contraception/children.

We were talking about how a lot of men do say they 'want' kids, but its more of in the way that they'd like a trip to a hawaii or a ferrari. It seems nice to have/do but not much thought past that? If women didn't push having babies then would human race would rapidly decline?

By this i mean, when 'ttc', men just seem to passively go along with it. If women were to be as passive as men then we couldn't really see men 'stepping up', by researching ovulation days, asking to dtd on certain days and then going to the GP entirley off their own back if they didn't get a bfp after a few months of trying.

We then also wondered how long it would actually take men generally to start really pushing the baby issue if women were passive and stopped using protection but didnt actively try either. If women kicked back and carried on living life without much discussion of ttc and just let things happen. Would men keep bringing up actively ttc? Or would they generally just coast along along with their female partners until its too late if pregnancy didn't occur and then just shrug their shoulders that it didn't happen?

If that is the case, then is that why men find it so much easier to walk away from kids? Or dont feel generally as responsible for them? Because they actually weren't all that bothered to begin with. They just go along with having a baby because it's what people do, but not many men actively and purposefully really yearn for it?

Be interested to hear others thoughts amd experiences on this!!

I think that's a massive generalisation. I (female) have never wanted kids; my male DP would have liked them, I think (more than I would, anyway).

I agree OP.

I have had several long term partners, and boyfriends incliding marriage and co habiting. None of them wanted children ( until my current partner).
I don't think most men have a yearning in the same way the most women do. There are exceptions to that with both sexes, but generally I agree.

I think most women nag their partners to have children but most men aren't really bothered and feel pressured into it.
That's exactly what an ex of mine used to say. I pointed out that he was quite anti-contraception for someone who didn't want kids. That
ended the argument until several years later he started dropping hints, then saying outright that I'd better think about having a baby if the relationship was to continue.
Another boyfriend rang me at work to blurt out: "I'll have a kid with you but I won't marry you!" He was 39, in debt, unemployed and staying at mine because his share house had collapsed because they weren't paying the rent.
Those are the two most striking examples of the assumptions my boyfriends made; that if I was sleeping with them I must want their kids, no matter how obviously unsuited they were to parenthood.
It really annoyed me because they seemed to see it as a whip to wield, and when they finally saw that I was telling the truth about not wanting kids, they were disappointed, not because they were desperate for kids but because they didn't have the same power over me that they had assumed they did.

Having the desire to sire offspring and being prepared to actually do the hard work of raising them do not necessarily go hand in hand
Raising children is low status work, the pay and conditions can be really bad and you take a huge hit in many ways, no wonder men try to duck out of it

DarlingNikita

Yes it's generalisation, but one I have found to be true.

There are exeptions of course, my OH was far keener to have children that I was. But that is unusual in the men I have known.

In couples where both say they dont want children, it tends to be the man who changes his mind (around 40) and decides to go off with another woman

^what nonsense! 🤦🏼‍♀️ Those childless couples probably break up at 40 because, as with couples who do have kids, they’ve been together for a while by that point and their relationship has gone stale.

@CoalTit what a pair of assholes they sound like

Not all men are the same 🙄

My husband really wanted kids and instigated the chats about ttc etc. He adores them but he really doesn't want responsibility for them. He loves the fun bits but the actual caring for and tending their needs is too much for his brain to handle.

Just this morning I had to day "Dh listen, dd2 is 15m now, you cant get away with giving her milk and a few cornflakes from your bowl for breakfast, you actual have to feed her"

His response was "I'm too busy feeding myself on a morning" (I should add he never starves our kids, he just gets up first and me and hour later as I'm up during the night with them.)

I think some men are pushed into kids by their wives and maybe wouldn't have them and i think lots want them but dont have any thought as to what raising children entails. And I believe there is a lower percentage who really do want them and everything that comes with

I disagree. My fiancé is more into the idea of having children then me and lm quite up for the idea! I have made it crystal clear that he will be doing his fair share. His Dad was quite hands on so he thinks it’s fair and reasonable

DH wanted DS as much as me, and wanted another more than I did! He's far more paternal than I am maternal.

I'm sure this may get a response of "NAMALT yawn" but if we don't post our different experiences, won't this thread just be an echo chamber?

In my DH's group of friends none of them pushed for children, it has mostly been the womens' idea. They are late 30s, all professionals, mostly good/wealthy incomes. They, including us all had children late 20's early 30's and one is having their third child soon - late 30s.

And to add, 5 out of the six couples I'm thinking of are married.

@JenniferM1989 my point was more can you guarantee he would stick around if you split up? Would he still be the same dad he is now? Hopefully he would be, but as in the ops post, some men want to be a father, then when they split up with the mother they aren't as bothered anymore. Or just not as bothered once the baby is born.

It sucks, but a lot of men are like that. Women are too though, there are some terrible 'mothers' out there. But they get far more bashing than bad fathers do. Bad fathers are almost accepted in society these days, just normal. If they do anything above being useless and do normal parenting duties, they are seen as amazing.

IMO some men want DC but don’t want to do much parenting or domestic work.

And some divorced/separated men want a new relationship and, if their chosen partner wants DC, are willing to have DC primarily in order to have the relationship.

... there isn't necessarily a contradiction between wanting a child and thinking all the associated shitwork is Woman Stuff
Yes. And if a both halves of a couple believe that she was the one who really wanted kids, there's a good chance that she will do all the shitwork, willingly at first, then out of a lack of alternatives later.

Tough one, because if a man were badgering his wife to get pregnant it would go down very badly. In a sense, the female partner HAS to lead on it.

My DH wanted kids, yes, and he's now over a decade on always been as equal a parent as me.

But, I agree that men find it easier (in most cases, possible full stop!) to walk away from their kids, and it would be nuts to try and claim that male parents in general love their kids as much as female. I just don't buy it. I fully believe that it makes a massive difference to be the parent who has given birth and mothered in the majority of cases, and while there are absolutely men who love their kids as fiercely as the mothers do, in most cases I think they just don't and there's just something wired quite differently. There are literally armies of men out there who have walked away from their children without a backward glance, or (possibly worse) just drifted out of their lives over time once the family has split, very often just starting again with a new partner and having new babies. Hundreds of thousands of men all over the world, probably more.

There is a difference.

YANBU.

sofast it’s not that parenting is “too much for his brain to handle”. More likely he doesn’t want to bother and thinks that you will do it, and stay. “Adoring” his DC is meaningless if he is failing them, and you.

What sweeping generalisation are you trying to make OP? Are you just talking about UK men, westernised men, white men? Because my experience of being married to a foreigner and having contact with lots of his friends, having children and usually quite a few is very much on their agenda once they're established in their career. Also ties in with Christian belief in that children are seen as God's blessing so the more children you have, the more blessed you are.

My husband wanted them more than me, he had to talk me around quite a bit.

Yes I've pondered this one. Some men definitely do long for kids and actively want them. But a large subset of those don't really want to do the work or have the responsibility, and a great many other men aren't that bothered at all.

It makes sense when you think that until recently, and still in many countries and cultures, and in many relationships, men didn't or don't do much childcare at all. They didn't have to think about it so just having a drive to have sex, and maybe a drive to reproduce in theory but not deal with the consequences, worked for most men.

My ex didn't really want kids, I see that now but at the time it was hard to see because I did want them, and he said he did. But then tried to put it off indefinitely, and refused to compromise his career even slightly or take responsibility for their needs, so I was always left carrying the can.

I think he said he did because he wasn't honest with himself, and he felt it was expected and wanted to be seen as nice and caring. He didn't want to be the bad guy and say he didn't want them.

Interesting mixed bag of responses.

Of course this is a generalisation and there will always be different cases/scenarios.

However one of my friends did point out in the discussion is that (again generalizing): it tends to be women who are reading baby development books through pregnancy, shopping for baby clothes and accessories, googling baby stuff, researching baby names and looking up the best local schools and catchment areas. Whilst the man is ambivalent or will happily enough do what hes been asked to do.
HOWEVER if the football team he supports or cycling hobby he attends has a event. Then suddenly he is actively buying tickets/training, researching, buying equipment and planning all aspects entirely off his own back with no prompting.

So when its something a man actively and purposefully wants, then they can and will put in 110% thought, planning and effort. But when you look at men applying that same amount of thought and effort into having kids, its rare to non-exsistent. Which kind of backs up the general consensus that men just aren't that fussed on having kids and it's more of a nice thought?

Disclaimer: i have no children and neither do my close friends. But we're at the age where a lot of colleagues/acquaintances are having babies and this seems to be the general theme of the 'making baby' dynamic in relationships in hetero relationships.

Yes, I have to agree with others on the thread that lots of men want kids (sons, not infrequently) to prove their virility and carry on their genes, but have little to no interest in parenting.

I suppose that’s normal from a biological perspective.

@Loopytiles I think it is too much for his brain, i think his brain works differently, I swear I can see the cogs trying to turn when I talk to him about kid related stuff. It just genuinely hasn't crossed his mind. And hes not failing us, I pick up the slack re kids and I'm happy to, he does adore them, they'd certainly think so. They just dont see all the behind the scene stuff I do that doesn't cross his mind