Would it matter less if I died?

[ladybee28]

Bracing myself a bit for a backlash on this, but...

I've heard a number of comments over recent months, exclusively from people who have children, that have left me feeling a bit weird, and I'm trying to untangle my logic from my feelings.

A few weeks ago a well-known musician died, and in telling me about it, my DP (who has a son) added to the story: "He had two kids and everything", shaking his head.

Then this morning a friend was talking about someone she knows who's been diagnosed with brain cancer – and then added extra qualification to the story by saying: "He's got kids, too." (He also has a wife he's been with since he was 15, and three sisters, and parents - but they don't get a mention)

Similar situations have popped up multiple times when people have passed away recently, where the fact that they were parents seemed to be added on to the story as an extra layer of sadness.

It feels like the reversal of their comments would be if a person without children died, they'd sit there and say: "Well, it could be worse - at least they didn't have kids."

And while I KNOW it's awful to lose a parent, and I can't imagine what that must be like for the children in question, it still makes me look at my friend, and my DP, and wonder: on some level, do they think it would matter less if I died, because I don't have children?

Is my life less valuable / important in their eyes because I've chosen not to be a mother?

AIBU to feel a bit weird about this, even though I know that's not explicitly what they mean?

I'd particularly like to hear from people who would probably say something like that, and understand more about where they're coming from – feels easier to have this conversation here with you all than bring it up with people IRL

Christ, this thread is foul and filled with the worse of Mumsnet. Self pity and aggression combined (not you, OP.)

I think a lot of people are expecting OP and other people without children to be unrealistically unfussed by being told their death is less sad! If someone told me that it would be better that I died than a mother of four since I only have one child then I would be quite hurt and I don't feel like that would be an unusual or unreasonable reaction, even though I could see the logic of what they're saying.

by being told their death is less sad

But their death isn't less sad!

It's only less sad to their children, who are dependent on them.

I have had cancer, and although for now I am doing OK, obviously I have had to stare the prospect of death a little harder in the face than many other people.

When I think about dying of this cancer, the only thing I really think about is how it would affect my children. It sounds awful, but I don't really think about how it would affect my DH, I always just think that he would probably find someone else and would hopefully find happiness again. I don't even really think about how it would affect my parents to lose their daughter I sometimes think about the FOMO I would get from everyone else's lives carrying on without me, I think about my funeral, I think about what my last hours would be like, what is it that would kill me, liver, lungs, brain?

But overwhelmingly the thing I think about is my kids. How they would cope without me. Not seeing them grow up and go out in the world, not being there on their wedding days, their 18th birthdays, not being there to see the people they will become. Them having to do all those things without me. Thinking about how it would affect them, how they would cope, would it destroy them or would my family be able to give them enough love to keep them going? The whole prospect of them having to grow up without me fills me with panic, and as I said, it's the only thing I really think about every time I think about this cancer getting me.

It's not that your life is 'worth less' because you don't have children, it's just that it's a totally different dynamic when someone with kids (especially young kids) dies I think? Because it means that there are children who lose the absolute most important person in their universe, and that is surely one of the worst things that can happen to a person.

This thread does really show how obsessed and selfish some people become when they are parents tbh.

I don’t doubt my children would be upset by my untimely demise but they would eventually get over it.

I certainly wouldn’t sit by and watch someone be beheaded because you know, my kids

I feel The same when people say "and she was such a pretty/beautiful girl/woman" as if their life has so much more value due to their physical attractiveness.

I lost my mother when I was a young teenager and one of the things that annoyed me during that time was how much people prioritised us kids over my stepfather who had lost everything - his wife, his home, a portion of his family, none of his pain mattered to anyone and he was just expected to get on with it while everyone was so eager to jump in and tell me how AWFUL everything was for me. My dad was actually the only person who bothered to ask him how he was doing and be there for him.

IME it’s actually the other way round (that was how it was for me anyway when my mum died) everyone concerned how my dad was coping or not.

But it doesn’t matter now. It was sad but well it happens.

"I don’t doubt my children would be upset by my untimely demise but they would eventually get over it."

My dad died 24 years ago when I was 13. I'm still not 'over it.' You don't get 'over it', you learn to live with it.

Of course you get over it, Ginger, that is precisely what learning to live with something is - that over time it ceases to be painful. My mother died at a similar age and I think if I had spent my entire childhood and adult life mourning it I would not be the person she raised me to be.

Shit happens. I’m saying that kindly. Most bereaved children do go on to live perfectly normal lives.

Incidentally research indicates that divorce and separation are just as devastating for children as bereavement but note no one advocates staying with the bastard lest it has an adverse effect on the kids. No indeed, then it’s all kids are resilient you know.

They are just showing sympathy for the children who have lost a parent. It’s bizarre that your first thought is wow I must not matter when talking about other people’s deaths? It would be awful to loose a parent as a child, absolutely awful.

You know you matter just as much. But.... When parents die there's a wider ongoing damage. Yabu to think you matter less.

I don't think that comment is about the person who died at all. I think it's a recognition of the loss for the children.

My biggest fear is something happening to me, and it being so hard for my children that their lives are changed forever; that they don't ever live the life they should have had. They deserve that.

I think OP it's irrelevant if you have dc or not it's called empathy. Something you appear to be somewhat lacking unfortunately.

Oh the irony pink!

Come on pink - clearly the OP is hurting, as irrational as it may well be (reiterating: she isn't less important than a parent).

She's also revealed a fractured relationship with a parent.

Have a little empathy...?

Incidentally research indicates that divorce and separation are just as devastating for children as bereavement but note no one advocates staying with the bastard lest it has an adverse effect on the kids. No indeed, then it’s all kids are resilient you know.

I'm not saying I disagree with you .... but a generation ago, people did say this.
People were socially pressured to stay together 'for the sake of the children'. And that doesn't necessarily lead to better outcomes.

A separation/divorce is devastating for children, but sometimes it's the least bad choice over the long-term. Hence the onus on adults to make good life partner decision (much easier said than done!).

OP it is because once you gave kids your brain dies just think in a different way about things, you process these things more through the eyes of a child.

My parents are in their 70s, I'm aware that they won't be here forever. I am very close to my oarebts and they also have a lovely relationship with my dc. When I think about them dying, my heart hurts to think about their grief rather than my own.

When your dp says stuff like that he is projecting how his dc would feel to lose a parent whilst they're still yoinh, we've all had that horrible feeling.

Every life has equal value but it would be silly to say that every death has the same impact (in the sense that the death of a single, only child, with no children or parents would probably have less impact than the death of a married parent, with children, siblings and living parents).

"Of course you get over it, Ginger, that is precisely what learning to live with something is - that over time it ceases to be painful."

I don't agree that learning to live with it is the same as getting over it, but you have your opinion and I have mine 👍🏻

@OneTwoThreeDoeRayMe I was brought up in a domestic violent home and ran away and didn't go back as a teenager as my mum sat about doing nothing. I still have some empathy. It shocks me people can walk about in this way and not realise it, I'm not about to normalise it anyway.

OP empathy is a learned attribute. If you hang around with people who have it you're more likely to gain it. It sounds like this may be happening by observing your dp and dss relationship.

I think you have some brass fucking neck to lecture and wag your finger at the OP about empathy, pink

She has raised something extremely important and significant (sadly you don’t appear to have the brains to appreciate that) which is that for women, in particular, the most important thing we are when young is beautiful and the most important thing thereafter is mothers.

Motherhood is fetished and idolised as perhaps the sole example of unconditional love, sacrifice and adoration. Thus when a mother dies it isn’t sad in itself, it’s only sad because she is a mother.

And op was right to raise it as it’s so subliminal we often don’t even realise it ourselves. People capable of a bit of analysis aren’t but others just squawk about empathy (although they have none themselves).

My DH lost his mum when he was 17 and his dad suddenly 6 months later. Even at that age it’s affected him greatly, and still does 25 years later. It must be awful to die knowing you are leaving your children behind.

With regards to the OP, it’s one of those things people say, like “oh it’s so sad, they were so young”, does that mean anyone old has to think that their life doesn’t matter as much? There are certain situations that do seem even more sad than others, but that doesn’t mean anyone’s life is worth less.

I was talking about this to my DP last night, and he said that the thing about death is that people think about it in their alive state, i.e. as if they’re there to experience the aftermath, when in fact they’re not.

And the truth is that no-one is ever going to know how their death affected other people, but they do know that them not being there is going to affect their children, and in life that affects them as well which is why people with children feel that they don’t want to die because they don’t want to leave their children behind.

You don’t think of the potential impact on your family, your friends, the next door neighbour because you don’t play as pivotal a role in their lives.

OP, I totally get what you are saying.