Would it matter less if I died?

[ladybee28]

Bracing myself a bit for a backlash on this, but...

I've heard a number of comments over recent months, exclusively from people who have children, that have left me feeling a bit weird, and I'm trying to untangle my logic from my feelings.

A few weeks ago a well-known musician died, and in telling me about it, my DP (who has a son) added to the story: "He had two kids and everything", shaking his head.

Then this morning a friend was talking about someone she knows who's been diagnosed with brain cancer – and then added extra qualification to the story by saying: "He's got kids, too." (He also has a wife he's been with since he was 15, and three sisters, and parents - but they don't get a mention)

Similar situations have popped up multiple times when people have passed away recently, where the fact that they were parents seemed to be added on to the story as an extra layer of sadness.

It feels like the reversal of their comments would be if a person without children died, they'd sit there and say: "Well, it could be worse - at least they didn't have kids."

And while I KNOW it's awful to lose a parent, and I can't imagine what that must be like for the children in question, it still makes me look at my friend, and my DP, and wonder: on some level, do they think it would matter less if I died, because I don't have children?

Is my life less valuable / important in their eyes because I've chosen not to be a mother?

AIBU to feel a bit weird about this, even though I know that's not explicitly what they mean?

I'd particularly like to hear from people who would probably say something like that, and understand more about where they're coming from – feels easier to have this conversation here with you all than bring it up with people IRL

OP if I knew you I would say " it's so sad she has died her partner and stepson will be heartbroken" . As if you were a friend those 2 will be most affected.

I often think about how when someone dies thwy have no idea of the number of people who will be sad. A friend if mine killed themselves a few years ago, I hadn't seen her for a couple of months and I know she wouldn't have had a clue how devastated I would be. I cried for days and 10 years on think of her all the time. There were over 200 people at her funeral. Children do not define you. But losing a parent as a child does.

Op I think people mean it's sad for the children, that's all. Because children suffering is unbearable.

Aa someone with a life threatening condition my greatest fear is not dying, it's that my children aren't adults when it happens.

There is definitely no need for the level of aggression some posters are displaying.

I was referred for urgent tests - thankfully negative - and really very scared, and my own mum said “at times like this you should be grateful not to have kids”. I understand what she means, a mum with cancer is far more awful than a childless person with cancer, but Christ, it made me feel shitty. (Not childless by choice.) i get it, OP.

The people most affected by death are the dead people. It's the people left behind.

This isn't about my worth, or your worth, of the next person's worth.

It's about the people grieving for us when we're gone.

Adults can process this. Young children, not so much.

Yabu. Every life it obviously important yours as much as a person with a child. It's not a competition. You were a child once surely u can see there would be an extra layer of sadness to a death if it ment a young person had to grow up with out that parent. Noone can love you like your parents (or people who raise you). If u have a dependant child your death is extra sad because that child is left in a place of heart ache and you are likely to be irreplaceable to them. (I know wives/husbands are not replaceable either). But a childs hurt adds an extra layer of sadness.

... are not the dead people.

wonder if maybe it's just something in the way it's said: "They had kids", referring to THEM, rather than "How terrible for their kids" or "I feel awful for their children", referring actually to the experience of the children, that has it land with me in a different way.
And since it's people who know me IRL, and know I don't have children, it feels more 'pointed' than it would otherwise.

I don't know why you are making this about yourself. Why do you think that people who are saying this and know you IRL are making a pointed statement at you?
They aren't.
They are processing their thoughts on the matter and thinking about how terrible it is for those who are going to be most affected by the death - ie. the children who are going to have to grow up without one of their parents or the children who are going to have to watch their mother die of a brain tumour.
I've heard people mention children many times in connection with someone's death and as a childfree woman myself, I have never thought it was any kind of statement aimed at me or me being less worthy of someone grieving over me. I know that when I go there will be a lot of people who are very upset and will miss me but I don't have any children who would suffer the absolutely hideousness of losing a parent. I have lost both of mine now - the pain is unbearable for me as an adult woman. I can't even imagine how horrific that would be for a small child. A friend of mine lost her father when she was 12 - she is now approaching 70 and she is still grieving the loss of him.

I think you may be struggling with your own identity and seeing the value in yourself as a worthwhile person. You will be mourned when you die. People will miss you.
Maybe you don't see this and that's why people talking about the children affects you so much.

@ladybee28

As a wife of a very much dh who is dying at a young age (39) with 3 children, sorry you just don't get it. Most people who know us are more worried about the children when the inevitable happens, I regularly get asked how the children are and that's the way it should be. Yes he is my husband and I really don't know how I am going to carry on living without him but the children are still very vulnerable, will have to miss out on so many things their daddy should be there for. He will be a huge loss to everyone that's knows him, however, the major days and events in their lives will have a big hole in them where he should be. Big birthdays, driving tests, weddings, children of their own.

Do I feel like I'm worth less more than them as a wife, no Because I am secure enough to know that he loves me with everything he has and will remember all of the amazing things we have done together over the last 24 years so far. The children won't have nowhere near as many memories....

Once my parents are gone, I don't think it will matter if I die. My husband will get over it. No one else will care.

loubie

Your update sounds like there's pain from your own childhood, I am sorry about that

It sounds like the small girl who you were is kind of saying, "but I had no mum who loved me, so what's so particularly awful about other kids losing parents?"

It's painful because when others react with sadness at the idea of bereaved children, it underscores your own loss that has (probably) gone largely unrecognised.

You need to grieve for the mum you didn't have, and won't have now, and learn to parent yourself.

I agree with you OP; I don't have children, however I have an elderly mum with mobility issues and she relies on me heavily. My siblings are all married with children and as such they don't have as much time to dedicate to my mum as I do.

If I was to die, my mum would struggle with care, she couldn't afford private help and my siblings don't have the time she needs but people would say "At least she didn't have kids" which in effect minimises the impact my death would have on someone who needs me daily for all of her needs (my mum).

I think parents find it very difficult to remember reality pre children, yes your children are your world etc but there are non parents who are depended on just as much.

That’s a really odd (and quite self-centred) thought process.

It’s not that your life is any more or less valuable than anyone else’s, kids or no kids. The comment is being made in relation to the children not the actual person dying. When you have kids they rely on you. When really young they don’t even identify as ‘self’ but as an extension of you and that changes to an independent view of themselves over the years. Children rely on their parents for a roof over their head, food, educational needs being met, emotional needs being met etc. Absolutely different in every way to an adult spouse who benefits from you contributing to the mortgage. Children don’t have the emotional tools to cope with the death of a parent until past the teenage years and for some with brains slower to mature, it may not be until mid-twenties. The death of a parent can completely fuck them up for the rest of their lives. Different to a spouse, sibling or parent of an adult who dies, while devastating at the time they have the emotional maturity to muddle their way through - kids do not.

This is why people feel more when someone dies if they have children. They are feeling for the children. Also for the person as the process a parent goes through knowing that they are leaving dependant children to face the absence of a parent is something that those without children don’t have to deal with.

In short, YABVU.

If I was to die, my mum would struggle with care, she couldn't afford private help and my siblings don't have the time she needs but people would say "At least she didn't have kids" which in effect minimises the impact my death would have on someone who needs me for all of her daily needs.*

While that’s true and would elicit sympathy, in the absolute worse case scenario it may lead to the premature death of a 70yo (as an example). To be blunt, someone with the end of the tunnel a lot closer than a child beginning their journey through the tunnel. Contrast that to a 15yo who commits suicide 3 years after the death of a parent, or turns to drugs and has a shit life for 50 years, or is drawn into unhealthy, abusive relationships for the rest of their life as they have been completely screwed up by the death of a parent when they didn’t have the emotional maturity, life-experience and life skills to cope. It’s chalk and cheese. It’s the same as when a 70yo dies, people think ‘oh, that’s sad’ but when a 3yo dies people think ‘omg, that’s devastating’.

OP I kind of get how you feel. Though I think you are misinterpreting what they say and your feelings. I think you feeling uncomfortable about this comment is connected to your relationship with your mother, rather than your decision to have children.

When people talk about the kids, they mean that it's awful for the kids. But, in most cases, it's also awful for the parent too. You have kids, you base your whole life around providing for them, bringing them to watching them grow. They depend on you. Need you, for practical and emotional reasons. You know would know that your death is going to shape their lives. You know, it wont ever be the same for them and that their childhood will be marked by losing their parent.

Ita incredibly hard. Dps life has been so impacted by 2 events. His mother walking out and never seeing him again, as a small child, and his dad dying. His half sister was 15. Her life has a definite before and after element. Before he died and after.

A child losing a parent is incredibly sad. It doesnt mean that you have less value to the people who know you.

Yes it’s worse. Because ultimately dying isn’t about you it’s about the people left behind. And for children there will never be another mum or dad, no matter how much they grow up.

I actually think that for a parent losing a child at any age is pretty awful as well, because you don’t stop being or feeling like their parent just because they’re grown up.

But to put it bluntly, how you feel is irrelevant. You’ll be dead. you won’t be feeling anything, And for friends etc no-one is going to feel your death in the same way as your child will. Your friends will move on and look back with sadness. Even a partner will move on and potentially even have a relationship and another family with someone else. But the children don’t have that option, because a parent isn’t replaceable.

I have a life limiting illness and have almost died several times and been clinically dead once. And the truth is, I’m not afraid of dying. What I am sad about is the children I will leave behind, and who will they talk to and turn to and have Long conversations with and all of that. My partner will move on, of that I have no doubt. I know that my parents will be devastated, but my DC won’t have anywhere to move on to. Even if they move forward in their lives with new partners and relationships.

I don’t think a person without kids is less valuable per se.

When people say things like ‘and she has young kids’ it means that AS WELL AS the awfulness if whatever is happening / has happened to them there is also the impact on small children.

Surely that can’t be hard to understand?

I understood that before I had kids

wonder if maybe it's just something in the way it's said: "They had kids", referring to THEM, rather than "How terrible for their kids" or "I feel awful for their children", referring actually to the experience of the children, that has it land with me in a different way.

partly I think this is just bad phrasing and must people mean the latter- ie this is awful for the children. But to a degree/in circumstances dying is worse if you have young children -EVEN if I think I could cope with having a terminal disease in general - but I know that to have one and having a young child and to deal with knowing the impact of me dying would have on them would make dying infinitely worse iyswim

Here is a story OP of two deaths.

In January this year, my best of friend of 17 years lost her cousin (41 years old) to cancer. They were v close. Cousin was married but childfree (by choice). My Best Friend was devastated as was the entire family.

In April this year, on Easter Sunday, I got a phone call. It was from my mother who asked me to sit down and whether I was driving. Such phone calls are no good I’ve found (I love continents away from home). Mum said - my best friend had died. She went to the toilet. Had a cardiac arrest after having a wee. Was found dead on the floor. She has a 4 year old boy she has left behind.

The boy’s dad is a useless lump. Boy now lives with his grandmother - her heartbroken 76 year old mother who does the school run and is facing raising him.

Both deaths caused grief and devastation - most perhaps for the parents who had to watch their 40 year old kids die. But one death has left a 4 year old vulnerable child motherless (and practically fatherless really), and his old bereaved grandmother desperately looking for therapists to help him stop having nightmares all night every night.

My grief for best friend, and best friends grief for her dear cousin are possibly comparable. The 4 year old’s grief though ... that’s something inexplicable and leaves us all thinking WHY THE FUCK did this happen.

Is it usually small children? Because I can honestly say that it does matter less if I died now because my children are almost grown, than if I were to have died when they were younger. I would still rather not .

I don't see it that way and I haven't got children. I think it usually because the children are very young or young adults and it's difficult losing a parent as an adult but I can't imagine how hard it is when your still young. It's more along those lines isn't it?
I

My bil is a social worker. One of the saddest things he had to do was take a young lad to the hospital to visit his mother before she died. The boy had no one else in the world.

Because people feel for the children! Imagine losing a parent. It wouldn't be less horrible if you died. But for a child their whole world would literally blow up. They lose their life line so to speak. I think you are terribly indulgent