Would it matter less if I died?

[ladybee28]

Bracing myself a bit for a backlash on this, but...

I've heard a number of comments over recent months, exclusively from people who have children, that have left me feeling a bit weird, and I'm trying to untangle my logic from my feelings.

A few weeks ago a well-known musician died, and in telling me about it, my DP (who has a son) added to the story: "He had two kids and everything", shaking his head.

Then this morning a friend was talking about someone she knows who's been diagnosed with brain cancer – and then added extra qualification to the story by saying: "He's got kids, too." (He also has a wife he's been with since he was 15, and three sisters, and parents - but they don't get a mention)

Similar situations have popped up multiple times when people have passed away recently, where the fact that they were parents seemed to be added on to the story as an extra layer of sadness.

It feels like the reversal of their comments would be if a person without children died, they'd sit there and say: "Well, it could be worse - at least they didn't have kids."

And while I KNOW it's awful to lose a parent, and I can't imagine what that must be like for the children in question, it still makes me look at my friend, and my DP, and wonder: on some level, do they think it would matter less if I died, because I don't have children?

Is my life less valuable / important in their eyes because I've chosen not to be a mother?

AIBU to feel a bit weird about this, even though I know that's not explicitly what they mean?

I'd particularly like to hear from people who would probably say something like that, and understand more about where they're coming from – feels easier to have this conversation here with you all than bring it up with people IRL

Well it is more devastating when there are children are involved. We lost my husband when my children were 6 and 9 and it would have been easier if in all ways had it happened if we had not had children. My
More babies have had emotions they should never have had to experience. Comparing your own self worth against a child’s loss ? You need to work on your self esteem.

As a parent now, if I found out I was dying, I would be less concerned about leaving DH or missing out on certain things in life and completely overwhelmed at the prospect of leaving DS without a mother

This. My dh did die, living behind two small children. Four years later they are still devastated and it's had a huge impact on their childhood, their education, their well-being, their feeling of safety. If I had no children the thought of dying would never have bothered me, but leaving the children to even more pain and grief does. They would have to move miles away to live with relatives and everything they had ever known would be destroyed. It's so hard to process death as a child, alongside the potential poverty and change that comes with that. Which is why I would say if someone died, at least they didn't have children, or alternatively feel sad that small children had been left without a parent.

the fact pregnant women and women with young children leave first in an emergency, in films, tv and in real life. That's just the way it is their 'value' is heightened because other lives depend on them.

Is that the reason they leave first, or is it because they are more vulnerable and it might take them longer to get out?

Yes, I would let a pregnant woman or small children leave a burning building ahead of me, but only because I could get out more quickly and I'd be more resilient to burns than a small child - not because I think they are 'worth more'.

pyramid very, very few people would be willing to sacrifice their life in the way you say - and much fewer if it was a stranger not their best friend, but that shouldn't matter if it's all about their kids.

I wouldn't volunteer to die in the place of someone with four children, even if by a lot of the logic here I should because I'd only leave one child and they'd leave four.

very, very few people would be willing to sacrifice their life in the way you say

I'm glad to hear I am not the only one who wouldn't.

Thinking about this, the only reason that might induce me to sacrifice myself is if I had a terminal illness and knew I wouldn't have long to live anyway. Whether the other person had DC wouldn't come into it.

This is a vicious, nasty thread. Some people are spectacularly missing the point and I agree wholeheartedly with the PP who described it as a grief competition.

Oh and @pyramidbutterflyfish? DFOD

Why are you making other people dying about you?

Hi OP,

I don't think you're wrong to think this way or that it's a weird thought (or has anything to do with your upbringing). I am also so-far childless and not by choice and I have had the same thought- particularly when it's framed in the context of 'They had a great career, husband and were a mother'. However I did find myself talking about someone who had recently died and telling my SiL that it was really sad because of their 3 kids, so maybe it's just natural to empathise with the kids.

In a way being the centre of someone's world does make you more important I guess, sad as it is!

to the bereaved, the dying and the partners of the dying on this thread.

also to those who may not feel they matter.

I think the pain of thinking you may die whilst your children are young is what I would call an active pain, focussed on a particular external point.
Whereas pre-kids/without kids/kids grownup there isn't the external focus.

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens

^same
I’ve posted higher up the thread that I think it’s more tragic when a person dies leaving behind small children, but in the event I might be getting my head cut off (LOL!) it’s every man for himself!!

As other people have said it is nothing to do with the "value" of the person it is do do with the fact that losing a parent when you are still a child is tragic and something that will probably effect the child. I feel the same when a parent loses a child, perhaps even more so and in that situation it doesn't matter if the child is an adult or not. Therefore OP your life is very valuable.

probably effect the child forever

I think the OP has a valid point, there is a sort of hierarchy of death, which I noticed when my son died at 26, due to alcohol, people who I told, often had an example of someone else dying too young and 'it wasn't even their own fault ' or they 'didn't deserve it'. I had to work hard not to take these remarks personally, and put it down to embarrassment and them not knowing what to say. Also a PP is also right in that it seems to be regarded as sadder for someone, beautiful, or clever, and outgoing to die, I am always aware of this when speaking about the death of anyone or writing a card to a bereaved person.

there is a sort of hierarchy of death

But again - that's not what this is about.

Again - it's not about the dying or dead person. It's about the dependants left behind.

I see a lot of people at the end of life and the only person railing against it was a mother leaving a 6 year old and toddler twins. I will never forget her screams and sobs. Literally everyone else faces death calmly. Sorry op but there is a difference.

In a way being the centre of someone's world does make you more important I guess, sad as it is!

But you're only 'more important' to the people for whom you're the centre of their world.

You're (generic; for example, I am) not actually more important.

Again - it's not about the dying or dead person. It's about the dependants left behind.

If you look at the comments the OP has mentioned, that isn't how they're framed -

"a well-known musician died, and in telling me about it, my DP (who has a son) added to the story: "He had two kids and everything", shaking his head."

"Then this morning a friend was talking about someone she knows who's been diagnosed with brain cancer – and then added extra qualification to the story by saying: "He's got kids, too."

What you're saying would be true if the OP's examples were "Poor Jack and Jane - their father has just died' or "Jill and John have just found out their father has cancer" - but the people the OP is quoting are giving news of the death/terminal illness first and foremost, and then adding the information about the dependants as an extra layer.

OutwiththeOutCrowd you've nailed it beautifully - thank you

I'm not sacrificing my life for the person with DC either. I'm able to do an important job that is of great use to many people, exactly because I can give it my full attention. I deserve to live.

I'm not sacrificing my life for the person with DC either

I'd be willing to bet that when it came to it, very few people would - even if they, perfectly sincerely, think they would. If the axe was hovering, survival instincts would kick in, and they'd do anything not to let it fall.

It’s not that you matter less, it’s just that a death of a parent when you have children is life changing in a different way it is to adults.

My friend recently lost her husband. She is devastated but they also have a daughter and her comprehension of death is different to her mums. She also has a life of ‘my dad should be here’. He will never see exam results, boyfriends, her wedding, having kids, helping her decorate her home, teaching her to drive and many other milestones she will reach.
My cousins lost their dad when they were young and it has impacted them so much more in terms of their mental health than it did to their grandparents (parents of their dad) and his wife.

What you're saying would be true if the OP's examples were "Poor Jack and Jane - their father has just died' or "Jill and John have just found out their father has cancer" - but the people the OP is quoting are giving news of the death/terminal illness first and foremost, and then adding the information about the dependants as an extra layer.

But that's not how it works in real life, if you don't actually know the children.

You mention the dead person, as is normal - but then you express sympathy for the people who'll be most affected by their loss.

The OP is (perhaps understandably) taking it personally, but what people mean is that there will be young children profoundly impacted by the loss of an irreplaceable parent.

But of course! Of course you matter the same but once you are gone, you have to think about the ones you leave behind and how they would cope.

Had I died 5 years ago people would have been devastated and of course it would have mattered. But I would be gone.
If I died now, it terrifies me to think how my DCs and DH would cope.

So yes, YABU with the angle you are taking on this.

You're not worth less than someone with children of course, but a parent matters more because of what they're leaving behind. A child losing their parent, even more so if it's a single parent does matter more than a person with no dependants.

but a parent matters more because of what they're leaving behind. A child losing their parent, even more so if it's a single parent does matter more than a person with no dependants.

Apologies, but I don't think this is all that helpful to the OP, as she'll still. be getting the message that 'a parent matters more'.

They don't. Parents don't matter more than people without children.

They just matter more to their own children, and the loss of a parent is devastating for children.