To wonder if other single women have this problem?

[SapphireSeptember]

Or is it just me? Every time I say I'm going anywhere (gigs, on holiday, to LARP events, even shopping in the nearest big city) I have people say 'maybe you'll find a man!' I don't want a man, I'm perfectly happy on my own. I find it extra annoying when I'm going somewhere with a friend. Cos I'm totally going to ditch my friend for some random guy, aren't I? (The answer to that is a big fat 'hell no!')

Please tell me I'm not alone? I've been single for just over a year (after a 12 year relationship) and the idea of getting into another relationship fills me with dread.

I get this all the time too. Ive been on my own for 15 years brought my son up on my own who is also 15 so definately not afraid to eat alone at the table. I often wonder about the people who comment on "our singleness" and think really they couldnt survive alone , really sometimes i think they feel a bit threatened knowing we can actually survive without a male , besides who says you need a man to survive ? To live ? To function ? You really dont !!! I believe mr right is mr left and that knight in shining armour is a twat dressed in a tin foil suit !!! Let them all comment theirs nothing more satisfying knowing you have came this far whatever journey you have been on without the aid of a man or anyone else for that matter !!! Working on yourself and getting where you want to be is more important than finding a man find yourself hey i think im the one !!!! And like the other posts alot of the ladies have suffered loses these people who make comments dont think of that either so let them comment and worry about our single status !!!!!

"You're going on your own? Isn't that brave!"

Grrrrrrrrr

@nocoolnamesleft

I get that too. No, I am going to a gig in London. I'm not going to Baghdad. I prefer doing stuff by myself because I work to my own time table, can eat wherever I please and if I want to spend hours wandering around a shopping centre I can do without someone complaining (or moaning about what I buy. I once bought some socks, my ex whinged about it. He bought a board game that he's never touched AFAIK. I've worn my lovely socks loads and they're still going strong!)

I met my DH, married and had my DD quite late in life (late thirties/early forties) compared to the so-called 'norm'. People were so happy for me as I had "finally found a man". While 'well meant', the underlying assumptions around this still piss me off. I'm very happy in my situation now but I was also very happy with my many years of singledom. A meaningful job, a wide circle of friends, regular travel, some romances if I felt like it (on my terms, short term!) meant a happy life but for others there was something still missing and this meant constant 'well meaning questions' and concerns. Traveling a lot to countries where people married a lot younger, I had older women especially horrified that I was in my late thirties and unmarried and childless and I could see the panic/concern in their eyes as they looked around the room for a potential husband for me. But it was when it came from seemingly progressive people that it really annoyed me. And the collective sigh of relief when I was finally married off and conforming to the norm...urghh!. I love my DH very much and am happy with him but my DH doesn't complete me; I was most definitely complete before I met him.

My DH also experienced something similar in his own previous happy single life. On our wedding day, his own mother made some comment about how happy she was, that her DS had finally found someone and she was worried it was never going to happen. It could have been clumsy wording but he was quite rightly quite insulted and found it inappropriate, as if the life he'd made before meeting me didn't count. And again this is from a woman who is very progressive and forward thinking in many ways. Although I agree that it happens much more to women and single women are seen as much more of a threat or something difficult to understand, there is something about single people in general that makes people uncomfortable. I'm not sure why, but wonder if happily single people make the married folks question their own life choices and that's what makes them uncomfortable. Does seem that way especially now I'm in my forties and the divorces are starting among those who married in their twenties...

I'm happily single and have been for 3 years. I've also never been married.

The biggest difference for me was my dad. I grew up with him saying things to me like "nobody says you have to get married or have a partner, nobody says you have to have children"

He sadly passed away recently, but I'm really grateful that he didn't do and say the things that you describe. He made sure that I knew I could have a happy, fulfilled and successful life and career without a man.

However, some family members (including my mum) have done this. Thankfully, I listened to my dad.

Society is still made up, largely, of couples. I think one in four women is single in the uk.

As has been highlighted by a previous poster, when women become single, they tend to be ostracised from their social group as they're perceived as a threat (husband stealers). There’s also a concern that married men in the group will feel an overwhelming urge to stake a claim on the ‘spare’ woman, in a sort of territory marking activity.

This leads to others not seeing them socially and so ‘the couple grouping’ norm is perpetuated/reinforced.

The Bridget Jones films don't help either

Yes, sadly there seems to be some kind of societal pressure to be coupled up, and a lot of people assume that if you are single then you must be looking for someone, that you don't actually want to be single.
It's sad really.

@SapphireSeptember

I get you OP. I am now in my mid 50s, and I didn't 'find a man' til I was in my mid 20s. I was single - I mean never had a 'steady boyfriend' - til I was in my mid 20s. I had a few 'encounters' and a few men who I met 4 or 5 times, but it never went past that. I was 20 before I lost my virginity!

People asked my mom if I was a lesbian, well-meaning friends and colleagues tried to 'fix me up,' and older/elderly neighbours of my parents used to ask me 'are you courting?' It was like a woman is not complete without a man - and kids obviously.

It was the early 1990s, and I lived alone in my own flat, and was 'pitied' by everyone. Yes I got the same 'you'll find someone one day' and 'why is a pretty girl like you single?' comments all the time. And the fact my 4 female cousins were all hitched by 21 (and had their first baby within a year,) didn't help! I was the odd one out, and the one who was pitied. The number of head-tilts I got really fucked me off!

Then I met DH, and people were soooooo pleased for me, and clapped their hands with 'joy' when they saw me with a MAN.

Anyway, we got married at 29, and had our 2 kids before our mid 30s... I do love him, and adore my kids, and me and DH have had a pretty decent marriage (not without its flaws and hurdles, but more pluses than minuses IYSWIM.) We do a lot of things together and enjoy each others company, but do stuff apart too (with our own friends.)

I certainly don't see single middle aged (or younger) women as a threat; indeed, the 2 women over the last few years who HAVE made a play for my DH have been married. Same with me, the 2 men that made it clear they are up for an affair with me, were married too! So it's not just singles who are a 'threat.'

I actually do enjoy being married, and the companionship etc, but I do have times when I think it would be nice to be alone, have meals when I want, just have sandwiches or soup for dinner instead of having to cook every evening. Also being able to just lie in on Christmas day instead of getting up sorting Christmas dinner, (and 'doing Christmas' and having to visit relatives,) and being able to watch anything and everything on TV when I want to watch it, instead of recording it and waiting til DH is in bed or at work! We do watch some stuff together, but I have stuff only I watch...I work 3 days a week and he works 5, so I get time then.

It was also quite hard work raising kids, with all the trials and tribulations involved, school-gate mafia, school politics, awful 3 or 4 years during their teens, siblings scrapping, trailing around loads of universities, all the extra costs and so on... But like my marriage, there were more good times than bad..

I have to say, if I could go back 30 years, I would not change a thing. I do love my 'me-time' but I also love doing things as a couple, and I have enjoyed soooo many family occasions. I have had some wonderful times with my kids. (and my DH.)

And although I have had phases where I envy single women for the reasons I listed above (not having to think of or consider someone else when you do anything,) I wouldn't switch places with a single woman. I have to say that the single women I know (who never married or had kids,) are amongst the loneliest people I know now. Especially the ones middle aged or older.

I'm not saying it's a given, that a perma-single woman will be lonely in their 'middle age and older' years, or that married women are eternally happy, but I do know a few 'never-married' women over 45, who never had kids, who live alone, and they seem to crave companionship. They are out all the time, doing evening classes, taking part in various hobby groups, and trying to rally people around into community activities. It's like they are desperately trying to forge a social life to get themselves out of the house.......

Most people can't be bothered because they're happy to sit in front of the TV or go out to the local boozer with their other half. The older single women do seem rather lonely. And I have to say, I don't envy them, spending their older years (45+) alone, with no partner and no children or grandchildren etc... Indeed, I do know half a dozen women like this, and a couple of them (48 and 51 y.o.,) have admitted that they are excruciatingly lonely, and dreading their 'pension years' alone.......

As I said, for all the trials and tribulations of being a wife and mother, I would not swap it for the world. The positives outweigh the negatives massively. I love my husband, we are soulmates and great buddies, and I love and adore my kids, (now in their 20s,) who are now also friends of mine and DH's (as well as our children.) We have had so many good times, and I have done so many things that I would never have done if I hadn't had children.

So although society DOES make women feel like they should be in a relationship, I have to say it may be because most people are happier in a couple. Not because 'society says so' but because it's just nice to have a companion in life. It can get very lonely being alone long-term. Even when I was single in my late teens and early 20s, I got lonely, and disliked being single. I am much happier in a couple.

I do know a few 'never-married' women over 45, who never had kids, who live alone, and they seem to crave companionship. They are out all the time, doing evening classes, taking part in various hobby groups, and trying to rally people around into community activities. It's like they are desperately trying to forge a social life to get themselves out of the house.......

Or it's like you're desperately trying to see it that way?

Perhaps it's because as single women, unencumbered by the demands of husbands and children, they are free to pick and choose when and with whom they socialise?

So although society DOES make women feel like they should be in a relationship, I have to say it may be because most people are happier in a couple.

If by 'people' you mean 'men' you might be correct. Studies have consistently shown that married men are happier and healthier than single men, but the reverse is true for women.

The bane of my life is 'So, found a man yet?' at every social event, especially if it's from the same women.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but constantly having to grit my teeth and answer 'no' is just an embarrassing public reminder of something which I would love to have.

The thought of that conversation actually puts me off socialising with several groups.

@IcedPurple

Or it's like you're desperately trying to see it that way?

No, I am not 'desperately trying to see' anything . I do see the older single women I know desperately trying to find companionship, and they seem very lonely.

As I said, I know a couple of women around the age of 50 who admit they are excruciatingly lonely, and I see others (especially 45+,) who are always trying to create a social life for themselves as it's better than sitting in the house alone. I think people who are happy in their home life, (and are in a good relationship,) wouldn't need to continually go out. Socialise now and again (a couple of times a month,) but not 3 or 4 times a week.

It sounds like my post hit a raw nerve with you. Apologies if my words hurt or offended you, but I am merely posting what I see and what I witness in middle aged and older single women.

Studies have consistently shown that married men are happier and healthier than single men, but the reverse is true for women.

I do believe that married men are happier and healthier than permanently-single men for sure, but I just don't believe that permanently-single women are happier than married women. Of course not ALL women are happy and content and in great marriages, but many are, and as I said, I wouldn't swap places with a single woman for anything. I have seen too many older permanently-single women (who never had children,) who are very lonely.

I am not sure who is doing these 'studies' that 'prove' single women are happier than married women, but I am willing to bet that it's single women doing it, to convince themselves (and everyone else) that life is 'better single.'

Many women have been on here singing the praises of being single, and a few have been dissing women who are in relationships/ married. Why the disdain and sneering at someone who says they are happily married, and genuinely prefer it to being single? Why does it bother people that some women are happily married?

I haven't dissed single women, I have just said (truthfully) that most single women I know (especially 45+) are quite lonely, and most people (IMO) are happier in a relationship..

As someone who was widowed young, I heard an awful lot of talk about "finding happiness again", which of course meant "finding a man", as if there was no other route to happiness.

I did find another man, but after a few years realised that I would actually be happier on my own. I am just waiting for the "oh, I'm sure you can find happiness again..." stuff to start up again. At the moment my idea of happiness is being free to travel and live as I want and not cater to anyone else's needs.

Apologies if my words hurt or offended you,

Why on earth would your words 'hurt or offend' me? Or indeed have any impact on me whatsoever?

I am not sure who is doing these 'studies' that 'prove' single women are happier than married women, but I am willing to bet that it's single women doing it, to convince themselves (and everyone else) that life is 'better single.'

Right. Because your selected anecdotes and emojis are what really count?

And I have no idea of the marital status or gender of those conducting these studies, nor can I imagine why anyone would consider it relevant. But it is a fact that study after study shows that well-being increases for men on marriage, but stagnates or declines for women. This has been shown time and time again. I'll take that ahead of your anecdotes about 'desperately lonely' single women.

Why the disdain and sneering at someone who says they are happily married, and genuinely prefer it to being single?

The disdain is for smug marrieds like yourself who insist that women who don't feel the need to attach themselves to a man are 'desperately lonely' and need to 'convince' themselves they like being single. Believe me, a look at the lives of so many of the married women around me is all the convincing I need.

@earlymorningfog, part of the reason why I'm happily single, now in my 50's, is, because i don't have to compromise and waste time by sitting in watching television (which I'll save for my late 70/80s) or in the same local pubs.

I'm Widowed, but my DH worked away from home. So i have children and Grandchildren. I think it's sad when you see older people demanding time from their adult children and Grandchildren. We should all be capable of being personally and emotionally independent.

I've always done adult education courses, they do a lot for you. You get a real mix of people. I'm sorry that i didn't get more community involved when i was younger.

I am hoping to join a walking group. It isn't about getting out the house, although that's always been important to me, but rather living the life i want and being able to do it. I'd hate a life watching television. As you get older you realise that this is your one shot at life and there might not be time. I know more lonely married women than i do single. But i don't know many women who haven't had children, so that might be a factor. But any women starting out now don't have to remain childless, if that's what they want.

I'd like the stigma removed completely about women who still want a sex life without a relationship. I'm sad to see the posts from young women (21-28) on FB about women they know who are 'slags' etc. The same women are constantly being cheated on, exploited and treated badly, but lambast any women around them whose aim isn't a relationship.

We're seen as a bit sad if we happily go out and look for just sex. That is one aspect of being independent that men don't want us in charge of because if we'd been brought up to be truly independent and have goid standards, most of them wouldn't get a look in.

I started retaliating. When people used to ask if I wanted to meet someone and I declined they would say “never say never”. I started responding “when will you start dating when your marriage ends” and responded “never say never” to their vehement affirmation their marriage was for keeps!

There are plenty of women who openly or even subconciously without any self awareness do see a single woman as a threat to the safety of her relationship

Ironically the worst culprit for this I know is married to an absolute waste of space. I can’t understand how she thinks someone else would
Want him!

"I think people who are happy in their home life, (and are in a good relationship,) wouldn't need to continually go out."

That's personality etc. I always had German Shepherds. I'd walk them late in the evening or really early when my DH was home, to get out. When my children were little and i couldn't get out in the day. Our hobby was camping.

I do wonder if loneliness is a mindset and one that's created by socialisation. I see many women 45+ who get more emotionally out of their friendships than their partnerships, but can't live alone.

I know a lot of African Women who are terrified at the thought of not having a man even though they get little from them and i do think it's because it's been a goal that has, been drummed into them from birth.

I see women compromising so much just to have a man in their house and wonder why.

I worked in care homes and most of the bitterness felt by the women was because of the lie of marriage that they were sold and their wasted life running a home.

I would imagine that women who have been in a long term cohabiting (especially married/childbearing) relationship are the ones who are much happier single.

We've seen the other side of the fence and it's fucking grim over there.

The unhappy singles, as PP alluded to, would be predominately those who have NOT seen the other side of the fence, so know only the con sold to women as to how fab it is and have that reinforced by fatuous comments about "finding happiness" etc.

I sense that the "unhappiness" of the perma-single is a mix of FOMO and social exclusion (as result of the fear of the sex crazed single ladies mentioned earlier). Those of us who've suffered domesticity from the female perspective lack the FOMO and are willing to bear the social exclusion to avoid unpaid service and, at worst (and too commonly) abuse.

I see women compromising so much just to have a man in their house and wonder why

Tradesmen charge less to male-inhabited households, dick you around less and are more likely to bloody well show up?

Less sleazy, gross married men trying to hit you up for an affair?

... and ...

... yeah that's all I have.

Having been married and in relationships I am now single and much happier than I’ve been for a long time.
As a PP said, perhaps then, I don’t idealise either state as being important to my happiness as the sure fire way to unhappiness is sharing your space with someone you do not like.

To @earlymorningfog - I am sincerely happy for you. But some of your comments are a bit odd.
Yes single women do embrace hobbies/socialising/group activities perhaps more because we have more time and we don’t have to go home and be answerable for our time away but the whole concept of ‘home’ for me me now has changed. The telly and dinner are not my evenings, we do so many things now I would never have done whilst married. Nothing is predictable and my kid and I are happily unpredictable. This suits us the way dinner and telly suits you.

I am not lonely, I may be alone at times when my kid isn’t here but loneliness, no.
I don’t need your pity and I am underwhelmed by your lengthy (incorrect) insights. I have a weird kind of freedom now that I would gladly share with a very special person, but just now, I’m happy either way.

Being single is actually very ok if it wasn’t for judgy fuckers.

I do believe that married men are happier and healthier than permanently-single men for sure, but I just don't believe that permanently-single women are happier than married women

Why? Because of course a happily single woman is threatening.

but I do know a few 'never-married' women over 45, who never had kids, who live alone, and they seem to crave companionship. They are out all the time, doing evening classes, taking part in various hobby groups, and trying to rally people around into community activities. It's like they are desperately trying to forge a social life to get themselves out of the house.......

^ This post is a perfect example of what we are talking about on this thread It is choosing to see a happy single life through the jaundiced eye of a person who can't believe its possible to be deliciously, selfishly, gloriously happy doing your own thing exactly when and how you want to.

Does it occur to you that actually they are having a great time doing all the things you can't do because you have commitments that mean your time for yourself has to be negotiated? I went to do a 4 week course in a America just for fun. If you have family and children, you can't just take off like that.

You could be describing my life. I have a very busy social life and am very active in volunteer work. I periodically do a random course to learn a new skill. I do these things for fun. I'm not desperately craving companionship at all because I prefer a single life. I do enjoy challenging myself and I do enjoy choosing to follow interests and passions that are purely selfish and just about me and what I like.

I don't need the crap that goes with having a man in the house full time. I don't want to be spending my time cooking, cleaning and having double the mess that goes with two people in a house. I don't want to pick his clothes up off the floor or his wet towels chucked around the bathroom. I don't want to spend any of my time being nice to in-laws who are lukewarm or pretending to like his oafish friends and their annoying wives.

You are choosing to see these single women as desperate lonely time fillers because it suits you. If you looked more closely at the joy of selfish freedom and financial independence, you'd probably have to face up to some unpleasant home truths about your own life, your lack of control and the limitations on your freedom to do exactly what you want.

Another one in the receiving end of many of the previous comments to pp. Single a fair few years and am happy with that. I have no kids and don’t want any. When I express that people often say you’ll change your mind when you meet the right man. I 100% will not. They can’t seem to get their head around me not wanting kids.

I have been lounging around all morning drinking coffee and reading a book. No one demanding my time and can do something if I feel like it or not bother if I don’t. I can’t see myself ever giving that up.

I have applied for unpaid leave in the summer and have more or less been told I have little chance of getting it as why would I want it when I don’t have kids and others on my team do and they might want it!

I fall into the never married/no kids category and it makes me feel so embarrassed and paranoid that people view me as a sad, lonely woman constantly on the lookout for companionship. Kind of like 'Oh bless her. She must be SO lonely.'
Why can't it just be accepted that different lifestyles work for different people? Why in this day and age are single women viewed so negatively? It seems so entrenched that I think it's going to take a long, long time for views to change which is really depressing.

Yeah, I think it will take a long time to dispel the myth.
Single, happy, solvent women are seen (by the insecure and stupid) to be some sort of threat to the status quo and are portrayed like a circus act who cannot be real or happy.
That was so sad when a pp said about old ladies in the nursing home reflecting on their lives and the lie of drudgery.

I'm not doing 'real' things like picking stinking socks off the floor, listening to a guy snore, turn into a Tory and thus into a grumpy old twat because I'd rather have beautiful clean white bed linen, sweet smells, peace, quiet, nice company when I want it and my autonomy.
People may think I'm weird but I think they are weirder.