to expect my FIL to pay what he owes!

[73Sunglasslover]

My FIL lives by himself. He's elderly but in reasonable health most of the time. He is quite well off (over 300K in the bank we think) but doesn't spend much as he prefers a quiet life and simple things.

The issue is that he asks us to get things - like DIY stuff so my OH can fix things which are broken when we visit (we don't mind doing this) and presents for the kids (he says can you put £50 in a card for them from me) - but without prompting will usually not pay us back. My OH and I have completely joint finances. I bring home twice as much as him (irrelevant really, but just for context).

He is generous at other times, e.g. he gave us £1000 each (me and OH for Xmas last year). My OH says that because of this we can't ask him to pay us back as it's too awkward. But I say that we put that cash into the mortgage so don't actually have it to give to the kids and anyway he gave it as a gift, not a fund for us to hold for him to spend when he wants/ needs to.

I find FIL really difficult. He's used to thinking only of him, so for example when we visit, it takes around 6 hours to drive to his. He doesn't get milk or bread in for us or any other food. After we arrive I have to go to the supermarket to stock up on basics. His wife died a couple of years ago and he's been trained to be inept (or lazy??) around the house so I don't expect him to cook us meals but to order an extra pint of milk and buy enough bread for us all to have breakfast is really no big ask and certainly within his capabilities. I can't figure out whether my OH is being unreasonable or whether my frustration at being expected to join my OH's family in treating my FIL like someone who really can't do anything for anyone else is clouding my thinking about this.

YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

YANBU - FIL should reimburse you and if he doesn't do it without prompting it's reasonable to expect OH to prompt him.

I find this thread really bizarre. I'd never dream of asking my parents or my in-laws to reimburse the expenses you have outlined.
I think you're more upset at the fact that he doesn't consider your needs to the point where he has the basics in for you, as opposed to you being out of pocket?
He's 86 ffs cut the man some slack. As PP have said, he's not going to be here for much longer. You'll look back on this and cringe

He's an 86 year old man joyfull! A little bit of cash, thousands??

YABU. I wouldn't ask my DM for reimbursement if she didn't offer it, Christ she kept me for 20 odd years!

So wish my dad got to 86 and I could do some shopping for him and DIY. Wouldn't mind still buying, writing in and popping in a bit of money into his grandchildren's cards either. FFS it's a generational thing, would always pay me back.. .. Needed reminding as very forgetful. Needed writing as poor education in the 1940s meant he could read, but barely write or spell. He would shop and cook but got into huge anxiety about not buying the right thing and if it wasn't meat and 2 veg, didn't trust himself to cook it. Great difficulty carrying shopping and also bending down and struggling to get things out of the oven. But a very proud man who hated asking for help. YABU OP

I also find this thread bizarre, but for completely opposite reasons! Your FIL sounds unappreciative and self involved. OP and family established long ago that they didn't bring things when they went to stay, the OP said mil and fil never brought stuff and neither have they, so that's a moot point now. Plus OP has said she doesn't mind taking bread and milk. I think it was giving an example of what little effort or thought he goes to when they go to stay, but people have grasped onto it as proof of how petty she is. OP bakes, cooks, restocks his freezer with his favourite scones, does all the cooking for everyone and works out a meal plan with food she knows FIL will enjoy. I dont see how the OP is being unkind or selfish? It sounds like she goes to a lot of effort when they visit, and she would just like for him to make them feel a little more welcome?
Also, giving them that massive financial gift doesn't then excuse him from letting them pay for everything after that. Some of these replies are really mean and over the top. How many of you would be willing to go through the same thing for your partners family and not be irritated by it or feel unappreciated?

How many of you would be willing to go through the same thing for your partners family and not be irritated by it or feel unappreciated?

Most of us, clearly. Given the responses.

I get you with the not having food in for your arrival. And not reimbursing you after asking you to put £50 in a card for the DC. Both seem thoughtless on his part.

And he should have gone to Christmas lunch at his friends with gifts.

But.

He's 86
He sees his family 4/5 times a year (and his DS a few times more)

I'd be embarrassed if my DH did some DIY around his mums house and then asked her for the money.

The food situation is so easily solved.

Why don't you take him out shopping while your staying and help him stick up in cards and gifts for the months before your next visit?

DH and I send Christmas and birthday gifts to DMIL's neighbour who is such a great support. It's our way of saying thanks.

He’s 86 and recently widowed. If he’s not an arsehole in other ways, cut him some slack...

He’s your FIL. Would it bother you so much if it was your father? He’s elderly and on his own and you are his family. He is very generous with you so I really can’t see the problem. From someone who has lost her father be grateful he is still around for your children. It won’t always be like this.

YANBU he gives you money as a gift, so no you shouldn’t then pay for everything you pick up or put in your kids cards for him, or next he’ll expect your kids to pay for stuff with the money he gives them as gifts

Maybe he gives you such large sums at Christmas as he is aware of 'all' the small things you both pay for throughout the year and it's his way of paying you back. Personally of someone gave me that much I wouldn't dream of asking for money back. With regards to essentials when you visit,clearly he is never going to get the bits in so just plan in advance and take them with you. Maybe even though in a treat for him for when you've gone. He's alone now and you're a long way away.

When my MIL was alive we'd take some wine but FIL is teetotal and MIL would have a small glass only so really it was for ourselves.

Lol,😅 I wonder if you FIL clocked that the only thing you bought was something for yourselves, he might think if you can bring wine for yourself you can bring milk too.

I have read this thread and it's the way you write and word things OP. You sound SO cold. I almost think this thread is t real. No one can be so horrible.

I feel so sorry for your grieving 86 year old FIL he should be spoilt and looked after in his later years.

Wow, such a range of opinions.

Regards bringing food with you, could you maybe the last motorway stop off one with an M&S / Waitrose and get a few bits there like milk and bread? He might find it hard to transport a whole load of extra heavy shopping.

Regards the money, I would personally suck it up. A £1k Christmas present sounds extraordinarily generous to me, even for someone wealthy. Many wealthy people just store it away.

Hi OP- YADNBU!
The money given to you was a gift, not to reimburse you for anything you’ve bought for him or gifted on behalf of him.
I appreciate he is an old man and might be lonely but he’s also a bit forgetful too!

OP not sure why you are being treated so harshly. I don't think yabu to request the money back. For petty cash amounts like for the milk and eggs (eg under a tenner) if you can afford it then yes I wouldnt ask for that in light of his generous gift. But for larger amounts I would definitely ask him to reimburse you. You sound very caring and thoughtful, cooking his scones etc.

At 86 I'm wondering if he is struggling to use an ATM or even knows how eftpos works.

Is his eyesight deteriorating that he cannot read the numbers or get his PIN right? My Mum is far younger but kept locking herself out of internet banking several years ago, so I do it now.

To me, he just sounds like a typical 86 yo man. Personally I would do online shopping so it arrives the day before you. If the small amounts are of concern, perhaps when you visit following a gift, you might mention it how appreciated it was, and how does he want to fix you up for it?

Seems easily fixed all round, he just needs a bit of help and prompting.

I have read this thread and it's the way you write and word things OP. You sound SO cold. I almost think this thread is t real. No one can be so horrible.

It's all genuine. What is it that I've written that seems cold to you? genuine question, not having a poke at you.

YANBU. When asking for something to be fixed just advise what will required and either take him to stir to our chase items or tell him if he gets the stuff it will be sorted on next visit. Again when visiting, just remind him when you are coming and give a prompt about basic supplies. Unless he is disabled unable to get out he could make the effort.

Just to clarify some point

OH drives and is, as I said, in good health. He goes to the supermarket a couple of times a week. Re the food, all I would hope for is him to put an extra pint of milk in the basket and a larger loaf of bread. I will then sort out more food after we arrive - usually the next day.

Just want to make sure I'm being clear about the DIY. My hope is he will pay for materials - not pay my OH for his time as well. That would be harsh and inappropriate|!

We can afford the sums now really. In the past we've been harder up and had to not do things we otherwise would have because we were out of pocket in this way.

Internet shopping arriving the day before we do (or earlier in the day we arrive) would feel like a massive impingement for him. He'd not want to wait in, take delivery and pack any items away. It is significantly less of an ask (for him) to ask to get extra bread and milk.

His eyesight is good - not like a young man but he's perfectly safe to drive. He can, and does, operate an ATM with no problems.

We have all been happy not to bring items to each other's houses. When they came to our they bought nothing - I have no problem with that. When we went to theirs we also took nothing. I don't think FIL objected to this.

We buy all the food for him and us when we visit. I am not expecting or asking to be 'reimbursed' for this - only for the times when he asks us to do something with money 'on his behalf'.

You've answered your own questions OP.

Ignore the posters who are not reading the thread and are repeating what others have said (and are being nasty).

My granddad was the same so I totally get where you're coming from but this is MN.

Ignore the trolls.

This thread has made me feel really quite sad, because your FIL reminds me very much of my DF. He was widowed sixteen years ago, but he has never taken over the roles my mother had. He’s never become hospitable and got supplies in for my visits, never written a Christmas card to the neighbours, never put any more effort into sourcing a present for his grandchildren beyond asking me to sort it out.

I think it’s partly generational and age related - old dog, new tricks, out-dated gender roles etc, but also I think it’s because it would be too much like moving on, and accepting that my mother is gone. He is trapped in his grief, and it is too painful to take on those roles that were very much hers.

And, Also for the DP concerned. Going back to the “family home” when one parent has died is difficult.

The generous gifts do make up for it but can I suggest that a power of attorney for money is considered and he can give permission for his son to act on his behalf immediately too, means he doesn't need to worry about paying you back

I bet you won’t be acting so selfish when you get your inheritance.

I don't think so. This is from experience. I have done food hygiene training and if there's a bug to be had, I'll get it! I really will not take that risk and I think it's a bit mean to call me petty. I am not making a rod for my own back here, I am looking after our health. 6 plus hours is a long time to keep things properly cold.

I know you said to move on from the transporting food issue but if you’re paranoid about getting sick wouldn’t you want to bring your own colds foods anyway? Surely in a 6 hour trip you would have to stop for toilet breaks or a stretch and there’s no reason why one of you can’t quickly run into the shops for milk or other cold basics!?

Have you added up over the year what it costs you and see how much change you have left over from the £2k he gifted you both? I know it’s a gift but it could be a sign of appreciation- it seems he’d prefer to give you chunks of money then the odd bit here and there because yes, he is a man of that generation who is probably not organised or inclined to do the small things. I think you’re being harsh on him. He probably doesn’t think it’s a major issue because he probably thinks your family are going to get a nice inheritance when he passes anyway. It’s not worth getting worked over. Be grateful.