to expect my FIL to pay what he owes!

[73Sunglasslover]

My FIL lives by himself. He's elderly but in reasonable health most of the time. He is quite well off (over 300K in the bank we think) but doesn't spend much as he prefers a quiet life and simple things.

The issue is that he asks us to get things - like DIY stuff so my OH can fix things which are broken when we visit (we don't mind doing this) and presents for the kids (he says can you put £50 in a card for them from me) - but without prompting will usually not pay us back. My OH and I have completely joint finances. I bring home twice as much as him (irrelevant really, but just for context).

He is generous at other times, e.g. he gave us £1000 each (me and OH for Xmas last year). My OH says that because of this we can't ask him to pay us back as it's too awkward. But I say that we put that cash into the mortgage so don't actually have it to give to the kids and anyway he gave it as a gift, not a fund for us to hold for him to spend when he wants/ needs to.

I find FIL really difficult. He's used to thinking only of him, so for example when we visit, it takes around 6 hours to drive to his. He doesn't get milk or bread in for us or any other food. After we arrive I have to go to the supermarket to stock up on basics. His wife died a couple of years ago and he's been trained to be inept (or lazy??) around the house so I don't expect him to cook us meals but to order an extra pint of milk and buy enough bread for us all to have breakfast is really no big ask and certainly within his capabilities. I can't figure out whether my OH is being unreasonable or whether my frustration at being expected to join my OH's family in treating my FIL like someone who really can't do anything for anyone else is clouding my thinking about this.

YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

YANBU - FIL should reimburse you and if he doesn't do it without prompting it's reasonable to expect OH to prompt him.

I just read he’s 86! FFS OP, YADBU!! I would not blink an eye if my 86 year old DF or FIL asked for help and didn’t ‘pay back’ the costs especially if throughout mine or my DP’s life they were supportive and loving parents!

Yabu. Ask for the present money, he probably has just forgets. As for the basics it takes a 10 mins to pop in to a shop for a few items. Why don't one of you go in and not drag everyone around the shop for a few items.

YANBU about the owed money. YABU about taking some food with you in a cooler.

I just wonder why this issue seems to be causing you so much stress? At worst, the money he gives you cancels out the money he incurs. He’s well into his 80s. He shan’t be here much longer, and we all seem to gain more foibles as we get older.

Plus I must admit it rankles when you say he’s ‘managing fine’ just a couple of years since his wife died. It’s nearly three years since my DH died, everyone would say I’m ‘managing fine’ - I’ve got a freezer full of batch cooked healthy food, I look after my kids really well, my job is going well - but I’m bloody devastated.

Let it go. He doesn’t live with you. This isn’t an ‘all the time’ thing. Enjoy all the many enjoyable things there are in life, and put up with him when you have to with grace, because it’s the right thing to do - whatever a sort of person he is. I don’t believe it’s costing you that much to do so, either literally or metaphorically. And if it is, your DH should step up.

I think it is ridiculous people excusing him settling up with you because he is a man. I would not treat my children like that and my mum who is 86 would not either. I don't think my Dad or my DH would either. If he says he will give you the money back and forgets it once that could be overlooked but doing it all the time is not ok. Also why on earth would he not take in gifts or contributions to neighbours kind enough to take him in on Xmas day. He also sounded like he was mean to your MIL and emotionally manipulative.

However I can see how your DH would find it awkward to ask for the cash back. Does he only deal in cash or does he do online banking? It is also not particularly welcoming not to get any milk or basic supplies in when you have a 6-9 hour journey. We drive more than 5 hours to see my mum and each time I tell her not to get food in as it is heavy for her and we pass a supermarket she still goes out and gets it. She says she appreciates us making the effort to come and see her as she finds it harder to travel now. Your FIL sounds very unwelcoming. YANBU

We do nice things for him. We don't want anything back for that. But does that mean when he says 'I'll sponsor you' or 'can you put £50 into the kids card for me' we should understand that this comes out of our bank account? I can't understand your logic there.

Simply put. Yes. He's 86. When my DGF insists on giving us money, we take anything he asks to put in a card for DC out of that. Otherwise, it comes out of our money because we understand that he finds this kind of thing difficult he's not much younger than your FIL, he finds it difficult to write a card now and as I said, is incredibly forgetful and quite frankly, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't bloody matter. It's the relationship that matters not how much money you spend.

To add on: Just because he 'manages fine' on his own, doesn't mean that extends to finding it easy to manage when you go to his. He may well find it difficult to process what he needs to do, especially if someone else used to take care of it. My DGF used to do a lot around the house before my DGM died, but after she died he slowly started decline and found those tasks more and more difficult to do, even with support. He probably is proud and won't want to admit if he IS struggling.

To be honest it all sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy. The one time you asked him to get extra bread and milk in he accomadated, but you've only asked once so he's probably thought it's not required because you haven't asked since. He's bought gifts/given money to the children when you've been there at Christmas but hasn't refunded it when you haven't been there, presumably because he's forgotten and you haven't asked for it back. You seem to view it as 'he's Old Mister Moneybags sat there with his 300k in the bank'. Whilst he probably views his savings as his nest egg to provide for himself until he dies. 300k may seem a fortune (and is for many), but it's also not like he can go out and get a job to create more income. A lot of the older generation are canny with their money because they've always worked/saved for what they have rather than expecting government handouts or spending like its going out of fashion. If the £50 in cards is a hardship ask for a cheque or bank transfer instead. As with most things in life - if you don't ask, you don't get.

Forget about freezer boxes and transporting food, just stop in the shop nearest his house before you get there and buy your breakfast supplies.

Op I don’t want to be mean and a lot of posts have given you a clue to get a bit introspective but you are only antagonistic towards those because some are not phrased nicely. I have never used the word mercenary on here and it’s the first time it really comes to mind. It appears to all break down to money but also being mercenary involves control of where the assets are and you are trying to swideswerve it, but too many people are saying the same thing to you and you are still trying to manipulate responses by having a quite unbelieveable emotional response (due to MIL’s position/treatment).

Ultimately, that is his Dad, he is 86 years old. Forget bread and pints of milk, there comes a time when we just leave people alone. At 86 years of age he is not going to be hosting in any manner of the word. If his son, your DH does DIY jobs for him (which you have totalled into the cost he puts upon your family per year), that sums it up. That’s his Dad, his person, his history, his mother - it’s not your history; - let him do what he can for his 86 year old dad, stop speaking for him. Who would factor in DIY costs for their 86 year old parent. You are controlling your husband and his Dad and it really isn’t any of your business, do you not have family on your side?

OP. Do you treat your own parents like this? He's your dh's father.

It's your choice to put the money toward the mortgage. My mil used to give us money and we put it towards Christmas for dc. Family isn't a business deal. You're breaking even. Why are you being picky?

Learning to live alone after a virtual lifetime of partnership is difficult. In spite of the current popularity of suspecting men are lazy losers who take advantage of any woman willing to do things for them, i think it's kind of normal to not realize things that your spouse took care of.

I cringe at what guff mn would give me if i confided that he never washes clothes and I don't put gas in my car! How dreadful! Do we know how to do both? Yes. But we do have things we don't know how to do. It's not gender/sex, it's convenience.

Also, I expect my dc to tell me if I am not helping or holding up my end. It's called communication. I may seem magical, with my uncanny ability to sniff out fibs, but i really don't read minds. But i trust i'll be told when i screw up.

Your comment about his savings rings a bell; that's not really your business. You could be wrong. But, regardless, it's money that can't be replaced. It's his safety net for independence.

And we have traveled with frozen food for 24+ hours in coolers with towels packed in open air space. It's still frozen when we arrive. My mother was much younger but I brought food or bought it upon arrival.

Finally, some people have real difficulty in markets. It's a thing. My daughter and husband both have it. They get confused and aren't good at getting things. It's not made up.

He's old. He's your husband's father. Be nice to both husband and fil. You're being picky. Overlook ....and take care of him a bit. I enjoy being kind to people. Family is people. Charity (in kindness too) begins at home.

My mil hated me. Was cruel to me. I wasn't cruel back. When she died, her children didn't mourn her. But they were sincerely grateful that I had done as much as I could to make family gatherings fun and pleasant. My dh especially told me how much he appreciated me not responding in kind even though she was cruel. The best part besides his goodwill? Our dc treat us kindly. Bc that's how they saw their dgps treated by us.

Don't be picky and petty. He'll be gone someday. Let your dh have good relationship and no regrets. Regrets eat you up and make you resent those who created chaos. Be kind.

I'm quite familiar with travelling for hours to visit family, and I know that it can be tiring to head out to the supermarket after finally (!) arriving.

But.

My view is that hosts should not be incurring expenses when we visit. It's a lovely gesture if family has food available when we arrive, but definitely not expected. We stop along the way (either fast food place, or we eat food we have packed for the trip), so kids are already fed and not starving when we arrive (thus they can wait a bit if we need to run to the store).

If it really bothers you though, I suggest no longer accepting the large sums of money he gifts you. Otherwise, I can't see how you can complain about having to buy bread or having to do things like purchase a £50 gift card on his behalf, when he has given you 40 times that much (!)

A widowed 86 year old who gives you 2k for Christmas and you are bitching over petty funds and milk.

Jesus Christ. You sound charming.

And how do you know what he has in the bank You sound very grabby and unpleasant.

@Catsinthecupboard - such a well spoken and genuine post

I think YABU. He’s elderly! Suck it up - when you go to visit and elderly relative yeah they might not look after you that well and you might have to help out. That’s what happens when you visit elderly relatives - they often can’t be expected to host you as well as others would. And about the money, agree you’re cheeky to accept £1000 then complain if he doesn’t reimburse you for DIY bits of the odd bit of cash for the kids!! It seems like you’re looking for reasons to be annoyed with him.

We used to drive nine or ten hours to Scotland with a cold box to see elderly in-laws. The food was fine!

Just seen that he’s 86! YABVU!

M’y MIL is still alive but due to parkinsons and dementia she is no longer able to take the lead in organising food, meals etc. In fact it was one of the first signs that she had neurological problems: there were 6 adults and 3 children for lunch at her house - and she’d bought a single Ninja Turtle frozen pizza to feed us all! This from a woman who used to lay in a great spread for us. FIL has never done any of these things - they had a very traditional domestic set up of him working long hours and her doing everything at home. He’s nearly 80 and struggling to become a carer: he’s not about to turn into Martha Stewart at this point. So when we go to visit we always build a supermarket shop into the journey to make life easier for FIL. We certainly don’t expect to be compensated for the cost.

Ditto for the small expenses. DH has just spent a week with his parents trying to sort out various care / medical / support things. He’s ordered various things for them
Including non slip mats, a new hoover, swivel seat for the car etc. He’s taken them out for lunch, done a shop for them. He doesn’t expect to get paid back for it: this is part of looking after his folks.

Maybe that’s what your DH wants to do too? His dad is elderly, widowed and grieving, he lives far away and on his own. Maybe this is his way of feeling like he’s doing what he can to help his dad out? Maybe he feels guilty at living so far away: I know DH does.

So be kind OP. If you can afford it, let the money go and see it as looking after you DHs dad.

I agree with the poster who said to earmark half of his big gifts to cover his forgotten reimbursements. I expect part of why he gave you such big sums is because he is aware of all you and your OH do for him.

Pack the room temp foods in the car with you and stop at a petrol station for milk and butter before you get there. He won’t know how to feed a family as his wife will have done that.

Oh I think definitely confront an old man about him not repaying the odd £50 when he’s annually handing you £1000. Definitely.

Oh wow I’ve just seen he’s 86. Re reading this post with that in context. Just wow.

He grew up in a very different time to us. People did save and they weren’t frivolous. He’s being very generous every year. All you need to do is visit him every now and again and you know what, if he doesn’t have those food items in stock when you visit maybe you should consider helping him out a bit? Taking care of him perhaps?

No doubt that £300000 that you resent him for will be hitting your bank account soon so you can carry on resenting him whilst spending it. Wow. YABVU. Unbelievable in fact.

I get you, OP. More than money, for me, would be the 6 hour journey, then looking after your kids alone in someone else’s house, shopping, cooking, making up beds(?) for a relative you visit for your Dh’s Sake of whom you aren’t especially fond because you remember how he was with your beloved mother in law. After a working week.
My heart sinks just reading that back.You’ve got the mental load and three wife work in more difficult circumstances.
And FIL wouldn’t accept a takeaway to save you effort.
That’s really shit for you. It sounds really hard.
Put the money subject aside and lay all that out in front of your DH.
I think if DH leaves you to it and doesn’t consider your family needs, maybe let him visit alone more.

YABU- very much so.

YABU.
I am almost saddened by your posts. He’s a bloody 86 year old man, have you ever considered that he just forgets that you guys are coming so doesn’t pick up extra bread and milk?
Most people his age are in nursing homes and their children are paying thousands for their care and he gives you guys a grand each for Christmas and you quibble over a few pounds for DIY.

If it’s such an inconvenience don’t go visit him and let your OH go with your kids and you stay at home. You sound like a terrible person.

OP have read your continued responses and justifications and it still sounds incredibly petty especially as he is your FIL and DH's dad and DC's grandad.

Nothing to add as you seem determined to feel slighted and wronged. I sincerely hope you do not treat your own parents like this and feel really sorry for your DH and FIL

I understand this situation. We drive 10 hours to visit my in laws. We cannot stay with them and have to pay for airbnb/hotels. It costs more to do this trip then take a trip abroad. This is much worse than buying some general food etc. Why don't you give your husband the task to buy the food and have things ready? My husband books the hotels. I stay out of it. I organise to see my family he organises for his. You speak about your Fil being inept but your Dh is doing the same thing.

As for the gift, he has given a lot and it is a paradigm shift but see it is payback/gift. Also remember that if this was your family, how would you feel in DH being unhappy?See it from both sides.
On a last note, this is your children's grandparent, who may not meet your needs but raised your dh and is their grandparent. Be kind just as you would want your dh to be with your family/friends. finally, remember that one day he will not be here. I was unkind to my mil for similar reasons. Looking back I can see my part in the problems but worse the hurt my dh expereinced. Find a way to support, love and show your children grace.