to expect my FIL to pay what he owes!

[73Sunglasslover]

My FIL lives by himself. He's elderly but in reasonable health most of the time. He is quite well off (over 300K in the bank we think) but doesn't spend much as he prefers a quiet life and simple things.

The issue is that he asks us to get things - like DIY stuff so my OH can fix things which are broken when we visit (we don't mind doing this) and presents for the kids (he says can you put £50 in a card for them from me) - but without prompting will usually not pay us back. My OH and I have completely joint finances. I bring home twice as much as him (irrelevant really, but just for context).

He is generous at other times, e.g. he gave us £1000 each (me and OH for Xmas last year). My OH says that because of this we can't ask him to pay us back as it's too awkward. But I say that we put that cash into the mortgage so don't actually have it to give to the kids and anyway he gave it as a gift, not a fund for us to hold for him to spend when he wants/ needs to.

I find FIL really difficult. He's used to thinking only of him, so for example when we visit, it takes around 6 hours to drive to his. He doesn't get milk or bread in for us or any other food. After we arrive I have to go to the supermarket to stock up on basics. His wife died a couple of years ago and he's been trained to be inept (or lazy??) around the house so I don't expect him to cook us meals but to order an extra pint of milk and buy enough bread for us all to have breakfast is really no big ask and certainly within his capabilities. I can't figure out whether my OH is being unreasonable or whether my frustration at being expected to join my OH's family in treating my FIL like someone who really can't do anything for anyone else is clouding my thinking about this.

YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

YANBU - FIL should reimburse you and if he doesn't do it without prompting it's reasonable to expect OH to prompt him.

If you didn't pick up a few small bits and pieces throughout the year, what would you expect off him in the way of a gift? What do you get from your own parents? I think 2000 isn't just a Christmas present. It's him paying you back for all the bits and pieces over the year.

I simply could not accept that much money as a gift from anyone. I just couldn't. I certainly couldn't accept that as a gift and then go back and say: by the way you owe us 50 for Johnny's birthday in March, another 50 for Katie's in June. Then we picked up a few bits for you and husband's labour, we'll round it up to 150. So if you'd be so good as to forward that on too.

He is an elderly man. He lives alone. He doesn't factor "family shopping". I can't believe in a 6 hour car journey you haven't opportunity to do a quick run into a supermarket to pick up a few perishables. Or that you're simply proving a point by not doing it.

I think you are being extremely unreasonable. He is giving you a gift that more than pays back what he owes you and then some.

How hard would it be to stop at a Tesco closer to his home. You could pop in while your husband entertains the kids in the car for a few minutes.

Your comment about his savings rings a bell; that's not your business. You could be wrong. But, regardless, it's money that can't be replaced. It's his safety net for independence.

I can see you and I don't agree and that's OK. But I think it is a little harsh to say this rings a bell. As I said, I was just making it clear that it is not funds stopping him reimbursing us. Of course it's his safety net and I never said otherwise. I don't want his cash. I want him to keep it/ spend it. We encourage him all the time to spend more so that he has an easier life (e.g. cleaner, gardener). I am not after his money and I don't think it's fair to suggest that I am. He has more income than us BTW, so he's not reliant on the savings for living expenses - he gets more in each year than he spends. We are very pleased about that as it means that he has the means to meet his needs even as his abilities decline.

what would you expect off him in the way of a gift?

I expect nothing. I don't think anyone should ever expect a gift. The two Xmases before he gave me nothing. I had no issues with that.

So how much do you think he owes you?

YABU. 2k for xmas is generous and the fact you each got 1k shows he wants to treat you like family, not just his son. That’s awfully nice of him.

he’s annually handing you £1000.

I think you must have muddled this up with another thread. He's not doing this annually.

So how much do you think he owes you?

I've not kept track over the years. But my guess would be that it is much less than the 2k he gave us last Xmas.

OP. Do you treat your own parents like this? He's your dh's father

My mother died a few years ago. My father and I are not close but on the occasions when we do see each other he would never dream of seeing me out of pocket because I'd paid his bills.

In terms of the amount of care and support we offer FIL, my father is much younger and lives in another country. He doesn't need that level of support. Despite the tension in our relationship and the lack of care he's offered over the years I think I would offer him the support if he needed it as, like FIL, he's not an evil man, just someone who is very skilled at not thinking about others.

I agree with the poster who said to earmark half of his big gifts to cover his forgotten reimbursements. I expect part of why he gave you such big sums is because he is aware of all you and your OH do for him.

Yes I think that's probably the best way forward. I think we can get the money back which we paid into the mortgage (it's pretty flexible) and if we do that then we can take this forward without having to not do things we might otherwise have done.

Op, you’re being ridiculous about not being able to take things in a cold box because they won’t keep.

Of course they will.

I get you, OP. More than money, for me, would be the 6 hour journey, then looking after your kids alone in someone else’s house, shopping, cooking, making up beds(?) for a relative you visit for your Dh’s Sake of whom you aren’t especially fond because you remember how he was with your beloved mother in law. After a working week.
My heart sinks just reading that back.You’ve got the mental load and three wife work in more difficult circumstances.
And FIL wouldn’t accept a takeaway to save you effort.
That’s really shit for you. It sounds really hard.
Put the money subject aside and lay all that out in front of your DH.
I think if DH leaves you to it and doesn’t consider your family needs, maybe let him visit alone more.

Thank you for your understanding. Yes this sums it up well. The money is not the biggest stressor. Yes we make beds when we get there - sometimes there are no clean sheets to do so so we've taken up extra bedding to leave there so we don't have to sleep in dirty sheets or without a duvet cover on. We do the washing before we leave and clean his house. It's hard work trying to make a proper meal in his house as half his cooker is broken and he wont' get it fixed or let us arrange to get it fixed. I'm not much of a cook and his kitchen does not have the basics you might expect (oven gloves, roasting dish etc.) so we take those things up with us so we can make him the meals he likes (we're all happy with oven piizza but he is a meat and veg man). It's work to go up there, not relaxing. But he is DHs dad and despite DH feeling equally cross as the way he's been over the year and despite a continued lack of interest in his son and his grandkids, we do try and make it a nice time for him. But my having a reaction to it seems to be provoking people into finding me hideous and mercenary. I don't know whether other people genuinely would not have any negative feelings about this or whether I truly am a nasty person for reacting inwardly to some difficult behaviours from FIL.

have you ever considered that he just forgets that you guys are coming so doesn’t pick up extra bread and milk

Yes. That's why I stated in OP that he was fit and healthy as obviously if this were the case, or even a possibility, it's a very different issue. I do not say this lightly but he has a better memory than me. And often his mobility is better than mine.

OP your recent post doesn't paint a picture of an elderly widower who is managing quite well like you stated earlier in the thread. It all sounds a bit bleak to be honest. The man is 86. Has little or no basic kitchen utensils. Very little shopping in when you visit. Bed linen not clean.

I still think you are being incredibly unreasonable. And if you can't tolerate the man and his house with good grace then I'd suggest letting your husband to deal with him exclusively. Is there any way he'd be able to come to visit you for a while instead of you going to him? You'd be sure he'd be warm, fed and clean at least.

Thank you for your understanding. Yes this sums it up well. The money is not the biggest stressor. Yes we make beds when we get there - sometimes there are no clean sheets to do so so we've taken up extra bedding to leave there so we don't have to sleep in dirty sheets or without a duvet cover on. We do the washing before we leave and clean his house. It's hard work trying to make a proper meal in his house as half his cooker is broken and he wont' get it fixed or let us arrange to get it fixed. I'm not much of a cook and his kitchen does not have the basics you might expect (oven gloves, roasting dish etc.) so we take those things up with us so we can make him the meals he likes (we're all happy with oven piizza but he is a meat and veg man). It's work to go up there, not relaxing

OP if you were doing all these things 365 days a year, I get how stressful it would be or even once a month, but it's 4-5 times a year.

I am genuinely shocked you are that put out. You have stressed it is not about about the money or food but him being inconsiderate. He is an 86 year old man FFS. Be it age or illness or just being plain lazy, it's not the big deal you are making this out to be.

It's taking care of family. I hope you DF is never in this situation. If I was your DH I would be upset that you cannot see the forest for the trees.

I

*OP your recent post doesn't paint a picture of an elderly widower who is managing quite well like you stated earlier in the thread. It all sounds a bit bleak to be honest. The man is 86. Has little or no basic kitchen utensils. Very little shopping in when you visit. Bed linen not clean.

I still think you are being incredibly unreasonable. And if you can't tolerate the man and his house with good grace then I'd suggest letting your husband to deal with him exclusively. Is there any way he'd be able to come to visit you for a while instead of you going to him? You'd be sure he'd be warm, fed and clean at least.*

His bed linen is clean and his kitchen is stocked well enough for the ready meals he makes for himself. He really is managing fine (on a practical level, obviously he is grieving his wife). He doesn't want to come to us. We have offered repeatedly including for OH to dribe him down and drive him back and for him to have our room so he has an en suite and enough room to put an easy chair in and a tv (we'd move things around) so he also has his own space. He doesn't want to come down as he feels it's too much for him - and we accept that as it can be a horrific journey.

it's not the big deal you are making this out to be.

This doesn't dominate my thinking! My OH and I just have different opinions about whether it's OK to prompt his dad to reimburse us. I was just asking for other's thoughts. I don't agree that that means I'm making a big deal of it.

We use a cool box on holiday, we freeze the meat and the ice packs and bottles of water, pop,in the milk butter and cheese and it lasts around 5 days. If we go away for the weekend we take everything we need including a cafetière fresh coffee and our favourite cereals.
If you FIL asks you to buy shopping ask him for the money first and give him the receipt with the change or maybe he will give you his debit card.

This doesn't dominate my thinking! My OH and I just have different opinions about whether it's OK to prompt his dad to reimburse us. I was just asking for other's thoughts. I don't agree that that means I'm making a big deal of it.

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVU and looking for petty reasons to justify your stance.

Op can you leave your dh to do some trips without you? Let him bare the brunt of it all?

You just come over as utterly cold. Like a jobsworth, petty and rigid. There's no warmth in anything you say unless you're repairing a poor impression and even then it's not convincing.

I would be furious if my husband spoke about my very difficult father like this. I am not surprised he won't ask his very elderly father to do things your way. Be careful you are not really pissing him off with your charmless approach.

You just come over as utterly cold. Like a jobsworth, petty and rigid.

What a horrid, horrid thing to say. I do loads for him. I work hard to make our visits as rewarding as they can be for him. What definition of cold are you using here? No actually don't bother answering.

OP, how about not visiting and letting your husband go on his own with the kids. Might be less stressful
All around.

I don’t think you sound cold either. Actually imagining making a long journey and all the bits and pieces you and your DH do for him I can’t see why after having been asked once to get in milk and bread he didn’t then think to do it for subsequent visits as he sounds of perfectly sound body and mind.
Just because he’s 86 doesn’t confer saintly status and actually he doesn’t sound very appreciative of things people do for him.
Regarding money i would suck it up and leave that in the hands of your DH as his decision, he’s the one doing all the DIY so if he’s happy to pay for materials as well leave it at that. Likewise with birthday money if your DH doesn’t want to say send a cheque or whatever then that’s his call, at least the money is going to your children and if you aren’t short then does it matter ?

and if you aren’t short then does it matter ?

Thank you. In the past we were short and it did matter more. I think now I an struck on the principle of it and probably just need to get over that. First world issues really of course. The mortgage can be paid off in the original timescale and the world will not end.