to expect my FIL to pay what he owes!

[73Sunglasslover]

My FIL lives by himself. He's elderly but in reasonable health most of the time. He is quite well off (over 300K in the bank we think) but doesn't spend much as he prefers a quiet life and simple things.

The issue is that he asks us to get things - like DIY stuff so my OH can fix things which are broken when we visit (we don't mind doing this) and presents for the kids (he says can you put £50 in a card for them from me) - but without prompting will usually not pay us back. My OH and I have completely joint finances. I bring home twice as much as him (irrelevant really, but just for context).

He is generous at other times, e.g. he gave us £1000 each (me and OH for Xmas last year). My OH says that because of this we can't ask him to pay us back as it's too awkward. But I say that we put that cash into the mortgage so don't actually have it to give to the kids and anyway he gave it as a gift, not a fund for us to hold for him to spend when he wants/ needs to.

I find FIL really difficult. He's used to thinking only of him, so for example when we visit, it takes around 6 hours to drive to his. He doesn't get milk or bread in for us or any other food. After we arrive I have to go to the supermarket to stock up on basics. His wife died a couple of years ago and he's been trained to be inept (or lazy??) around the house so I don't expect him to cook us meals but to order an extra pint of milk and buy enough bread for us all to have breakfast is really no big ask and certainly within his capabilities. I can't figure out whether my OH is being unreasonable or whether my frustration at being expected to join my OH's family in treating my FIL like someone who really can't do anything for anyone else is clouding my thinking about this.

YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

YANBU - FIL should reimburse you and if he doesn't do it without prompting it's reasonable to expect OH to prompt him.

My uncle was a bit like this in his later years when he was getting pretty frail, it just didn't occur to him about paying people back for what they'd spent on his behalf. He had a very good pension so money really wasn't an issue for him. Then when my dad pointed it to to him, he was brilliant after that, and never a problem again. He'd keep a bowl with money in and we take out what we needed to either buy or repay ourselves for his cigars, fish and chips, bread, papers - whatever.

I've just spent a few days at my dads after he came out of hospital, he's been an absolute stickler about paying me back for anything I've needed to spend whilst I've been looking after him. Food shopping, papers, car parking etc. I think that's fair, he's got more money than we have.

I don't see the issue here with asking him to pay for the food whilst you're staying with him. It sounds like it hasn't occurred to him to get more in because he's going to be having visitors. Presumably you take over the cooking whilst you're there, so he's probably benefiting from a nice spot of home cooking whilst you're there too. If he was struggling financially then it would be different, but that appears not to be the case here, so I think it's fair to ask him to stump up. What's the worst that could happen, he says no and then you will know where you stand.

I think YANBU about the money. Its not necessarily the sums involved, but the lack of consideration. It could make life very difficult for a family with small kids to have extra expenses. You already gift him as much time as you can, cook for him and do things he enjoys. From what you've described, you're extremely generous, considerate and loving towards him. The gift is irrelevant, IMO. I think the pp idea of a bank account your DH can access for those types of expenses is a great idea - not sure I see your DH broaching the topic though

What rubbish - this is an 86 year old father who is extremely generous in that he gave his DIL and son £1000 as a gift. He's old school and doesn't think to plan ahead and get groceries in for the 4x visits per year the son and family visit. Apart from the fact the son and DIL shouldn't be turning up empty handed (as posted in my family I wouldn't dream of turning up without basics and treats)

As for the DIY etc - I'd insist on paying and not expect my 86 year old parent to - this has really upset me how money in some families takes presidence over doing petty amounts of money. Vile.

You haven't answered my point that I would never arrive empty handed while staying with relatives stands - I'd always bring basics plus chocolates etc -

I don't always take things to relatives. I don't have that many so don't have much to draw on! When I visit my sister I usually take some prosecco and sometimes flower and some snacks for us to share. When my MIL was alive we'd take some wine but FIL is teetotal and MIL would have a small glass only so really it was for ourselves. We'd not take a lot of stuff but when she visited us she also brought nothing and I think we were both OK with that. I don't take basics to relatives normally and thought that others didn't too. But perhaps I am wrong with that assumption.

As for the DIY etc - I'd insist on paying and not expect my 86 year old parent to - this has really upset me how money in some families takes presidence over doing petty amounts of money. Vile.

It sounds like you feel very strongly. I guess i see it a bit differently. I would not be happy for less well off relatives to pay my bills. I don't think a couple of hundred quid is a petty amount of money. We're not asking him for a quid for the eggs we bought him as we are wealthy enough not to feel that sort of amount.

The answer to your OP:
YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

You sound unkind, and I feel sorry for your FIL. He is 86 yeas old widow, I honestly struggling to understand what do you expect from him. If you see him 4 times a year he most definitely forgot to reimburse you for sponsorship and kids’ presents.

You also come across rather aggressive towards those who disagree with your opinion, no need for that.

This is all so incredibly petty. The man is 86 fgs....he is very likely forgetful. He is also very, VERY generous and even if he were not, it is simply a case of a child (OH) helping out his very elderly parent. There is no need to keep track of such small costs, especially when they total less than £300 per year.

And the excuses are ridiculous. There has literally been an excuse for EVERY.SINGLE. reasonable solution given to alleviate the inconvenience of the situation. It is almost as though OP is intent on finding fault as she resents her FIL.

Remember OP, you too will grow old.

My parents give a lot more than £50 to my children on their birthdays, usually about £150 or a present that they know they want and money. They do this off their own back. Usually the money goes straight into their savings account but sometimes they may spend a little of it. My sons are not particularly materialistic or spoilt, it's just something that they know their grandparents do. (Their other grandparents can be quite stingy - but that's another story ). My parents would be offended if we/they gave it back.

I can't remember the full quote but it was along the lines of penny pinching taker. Very apt.

And how exactly are you expecting him to get enough bread and milk for 5 people? By doing an online shop? Asking a neighbor? Or is the 86 year old meant to carry twice as much back from the shop or go twice?

I think the mistake you are making is doing the wifework with regards to DH's dad. Let him take responsibility for everything regarding his dad- whether and when you visit, organising the food, worrying about whether he reimburses you etc.

Just take all this mental load off your to do list. It's DH's dad, let him sort him out.

'I think the mistake you are making is doing the wifework with regards to DH's dad. Let him take responsibility for everything regarding his dad- whether and when you visit, organising the food, worrying about whether he reimburses you etc.

Just take all this mental load off your to do list. It's DH's dad, let him sort him out'

Quite

I think the question is does he actually want you to visit? At 86 coping with four guests is a lot. He is the same age as my Dad and I would expect to sort out most stuff when we go and visit. We see it as a bit of a duty to see him, but I think he believes he is doing us a favour by putting us up and our kids are grown up and don’t often come with us. He is grateful for stuff we do for him but is very careful with money, totally unnecessarily just the generation he is. At 86 I would cut your FIL some slack over minor inconveniences but if he wants you to cover the costs of diy or presents get the money upfront.

OP - I don’t think you are vile or mercenary or anything like that but you have mentioned not having a lot of family so maybe you might like the perspective of someone who has

When overnight visits happen of an entire family ( and I am speaking from my own experience and am certain it’s different for other families blah blah ) we all tend to consider the greatest hardship is on the host. The visiting family always discuss before hand what’s they need to bring, then either bring groceries or go to the shop the next day. It is expected that they don’t just view it as a holiday but that they help out and share the load.

This is because it’s very stressful to have a whole family come for a visit, even though it’s wonderful to see them and my house is already geared up for a young family

I totally completely understand why you would love it if a meal was ready for you and you received more little welcoming touches and if it seemed like he’d given advance thought to your arrival and the comfort of the stay. It’s all about feeling welcome as I truly hope we make our family feel even though the unwritten rule is that they try to make us feel as inconvenienced as possible,

I do mostly think that the dominant point here though is that he is a 86year old widow who just is oblivious to how to be a good host

I don’t believe now is the time to effect change in him and I think that you must consider yourself blessed that once a year he shows his gratitude to you as he knows best in a very generous gift

“FIL- we’re all looking forward to seeing you on Friday. I thought I might do an online shop so we don’t have to waste time shopping while we’re there. Would a delivery at 2.00 be convenient for you? And is there anything particular you need?”

But it does seem to be a bit strange that the OP couldn’t chuck a frozen bottle of milk and a load of bread in the car before they set off. Or buy some at whatever services they stop at during the 6 hour drive...

This man is 86 !!!!

When your H is doing DIY at his dads it’s what we as children do to help our elderly parents. If they are blessing for whatever reason we reassure them and hopefully visit. You live 6 hours away from him. So obviously you can’t be at his beck and call. But have some sympathy he is 86!!!

One day he might go in a home. That’s your £300k gone. Make the most of your FIL now and stop moaning about money, milk and bread it really is selfish.

When your H went to stay with your FIL for a week - and you had to pull in all the help you could. Bless. How awful if your H to spend a week with HIS dad.

You should ask him. If he asked you to put £50 in an envelope for your DC then I would presume he wants to give them this and he is forgetful.

If you don’t ask him, it’s like he hasn’t bought your DC a present and it’s another from you. In future ask for it in advance or ask him to post it as your DC prefer receiving something from the postman. Does this mean he does t write them a card either.

He sounds very lazy and ignore the posters that think you should ignore poor behaviour just because he is well off and can give you £1000 at Xmas without even noticing. It sounds like he is giving you your inheritance in piecemeal to buy favour.

Oh hadn’t realised he was 86, that does change things a lot!

He’s 86 and widowed 2 years ago. I do think a bit of slack needs to be cut.
Also for the DP concerned. Going back to the “family home” whe one parent has died is difficult.

The business of not taking presents to the neighbours at Christmas is pretty bad. Almost feeling embarrassed just thinking about it. Otherwise I think you just have to suck the situation up and do your best to mitigate - which it sounds you are doing. The only exception might be the kids' presents and sponsorship but perhaps your FIL does genuinely think because your he gave you 1K each it can come out of that. If your OH can't or won't discuss it with him though, there's not much you can do. I think your FIL must know he is doing it but must think it covered by the generous Christmas gift. "Dad you know the generous gifts you gave the children, you did not give us the money for them. I know you gave us most generous Christmas gifts but we used that you pay down the mortgage so we are struggle to find the money for the children's gifts. Is it ok to give us the money for the kid's gifts or did you want it to come out of our Christmas gifts?" As for all the talking and all the listening. Lots of elderly get like this. Can be soul destroying for the listener. I have first hand experience of this. But overall you have to put up the be as kind as you csn to your elderly relative.

YABU - he's older now, of course his memory isn't in good shape. To be honest I'd be taking it on the chin and not asking for the money back even if he wasn't giving large presents at other times of the year! He's your DH Dad!

I think it is a bit much expecting him to get bread and milk, I'm surprised that you can't just pick it up yourself and bring it with you in the car. You could easily do bread and UHT milk or order an online shop to his house.

'It's not fun being there at all - it's lonely and dull. But I think he's still grieving his mum and he is worried about his dad so this is all to be expected and not something to give him a hard time about. I just want for him to re-engage with our marriage upon our return.'

I think your 'OH' may be sensing your negativity towards the visits and perhaps feels slightly resentful because of this.

It must be pretty difficult visiting his Dad in the home where he remembers his mum so I'd certainly cut him some slack.

You're a CF - Unbelievable

You seem quite high maintenance OP, all this fuss about transporting food and drink, some sort of an issue with internet shopping, needing people to solve basic problems for you, keeping a track of small amounts when you’ve been given a much bigger amount.

I’m also quite confused as to why your FIL was a terrible person for not taking a gift to his neighbours but it’s not an issue when you don’t take things to people when you visit.

We all get old, OP, and life does get harder to manage. If you can't manage to put together a few groceries for your visits and sub him when he needs things bought when he has shown such generosity to you it's a pretty poor show.

Tell him not to worry about such generous gifts in the future and also that you would rather he left his wealth to his friends and the people who are actually supporting him.