to expect my FIL to pay what he owes!

[73Sunglasslover]

My FIL lives by himself. He's elderly but in reasonable health most of the time. He is quite well off (over 300K in the bank we think) but doesn't spend much as he prefers a quiet life and simple things.

The issue is that he asks us to get things - like DIY stuff so my OH can fix things which are broken when we visit (we don't mind doing this) and presents for the kids (he says can you put £50 in a card for them from me) - but without prompting will usually not pay us back. My OH and I have completely joint finances. I bring home twice as much as him (irrelevant really, but just for context).

He is generous at other times, e.g. he gave us £1000 each (me and OH for Xmas last year). My OH says that because of this we can't ask him to pay us back as it's too awkward. But I say that we put that cash into the mortgage so don't actually have it to give to the kids and anyway he gave it as a gift, not a fund for us to hold for him to spend when he wants/ needs to.

I find FIL really difficult. He's used to thinking only of him, so for example when we visit, it takes around 6 hours to drive to his. He doesn't get milk or bread in for us or any other food. After we arrive I have to go to the supermarket to stock up on basics. His wife died a couple of years ago and he's been trained to be inept (or lazy??) around the house so I don't expect him to cook us meals but to order an extra pint of milk and buy enough bread for us all to have breakfast is really no big ask and certainly within his capabilities. I can't figure out whether my OH is being unreasonable or whether my frustration at being expected to join my OH's family in treating my FIL like someone who really can't do anything for anyone else is clouding my thinking about this.

YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

YANBU - FIL should reimburse you and if he doesn't do it without prompting it's reasonable to expect OH to prompt him.

. I think we can get the money back which we paid into the mortgage (it's pretty flexible) and if we do that then we can take this forward without having to not do things we might otherwise have done.

Will you really need to do this? Really? Because I kind of think if your budget was so tight that it is essential to claw back the odd £50 or £100 then you probably wouldn't have paid the entire amount you were gifted from him towards your mortgage in the first place.

Out of interest do you plan to confront 86 year old FIL after reading all these responses?

Hi Julie

We don't need to get money back from mortgage to cover basic expenses. But there are things we don't do because of the lack of funds and this grates. So yes, if we don't want our extras compromised we will need to. It is not tricky to do that though so it's not a big issue.

I'm not going to confront FIL. I respect my OH's decision in this regard even if I don't agree with it. I thought OH he might be in a minority with how he sees it and sometimes it's helpful to check that out as it's easy for any of us to think other see things the same way when they really don't. OH and I have been discussing the thread and people's thoughts and he agrees that he gets focused on what FIL wants and leave everything else to me which is a little unfair. He agrees that he can ask FIL to put a note out asking for an extra pint of milk and says he will do so. He is not sure whether he will be able to ask for money to be reimbursed but will think some more about it.

it's not the big deal you are making this out to be.

Of course it is! OP doesn’t even like the man who does not sound likeable and is not welcoming when they do go and see him!
So OP, are you going to tell your DH he needs to step up with the childcare, cooking, shopping and bedmaking at his father’s house?

Your DH is taking you for granted as exemplified by his behaviour while you are at FIL’s house.

YANBU. Your FIL seems thoughtless, obviously lovely MIL used to do everything with regards to the home and family. He should offer to pay when he asks you to get things for him. I realised that you only mentioned money so that people wouldn't think he's destitute and couldn't afford the things he asks of you.

I think when you give a gift, you don't expect your family to use it for your living expenses, ie food, dc gifts and diy.

It is natural for most people to get at least extra essential food in before family come to stay, especially when they have travelled a fair distance.

I think I'm being vague about the impact on us of the money and that's not very helpful. We are wealthier than we were so nowadays is has less impact. We run out finances quite tightly though as we hope to get the mortgage paid off before the kids are 18 as that way we will be in a better position to help them and pay the parental contribution. It was more impactful in the past to be subbing them. Nowadays we feel it less but there are still some extras we can't have and whilst this is not unusual I think I resent knowing that we have paid a wealthy man's sponsorship money and have to say no to to the kids doing some things (or us) which we could otherwise have said yes to. Getting the money back from our flexible mortgage will help t readjust that balance. It's not that we need it to buy groceries. It is extras like 'can we have a takeaway curry tonight?' or 'can i do the ta kwando day in the school hols' or 'can I say yes to this work night out'. We do go out and the kids do clubs. It is additional stuff on top of that. I don't want to spend OH's money on our day to day living expenses as I think we have to live within what we bring in - hence it all went on the mortgage which can be seen as a investment for the future in some ways.

'we have paid a wealthy man's sponsorship money'

There an easy one

Stop asking him to sponsor your dc

When he says 'put 50 quid in their card'

Say

'Thanks FIL but that's way too extravagant, can we say 20'

Yabu
Freeze the milk and put in a cool pack. We do this for camping, everything stays nicely cold

I sympathise over the failure to re-imburse.

Maybe your DH could offer to hold a kitty for him, or a card on his account to use for his expenses or anything he wants to buy for the kids?

But you are being ridiculous over the use of a chiller bag and a few ice blocks. You can pre-freeze meat, and milk if you insist, in a cool box or chiller bag with ice packs it will keep plenty cold enough. Even over 9 hours.

Or organise a Tesco delivery to arrive on the same day as you.

Can't believe you're still here trying to convince people you're not being a tight arse towards an 86 year old parent .

Honestly, shame on you.

*Can't believe you're still here trying to convince people you're not being a tight arse towards an 86 year old parent shock.

Honestly, shame on you.*

No, shame on you for being judgemental and rude. I've come her to ask for other;s opinions and posters like you are just flinging out insults when I see things differently. Shame on you for not yet learning how to discuss something respectfully.

Lol

You are being judged for a reason. By the majority of posters. For whinging that an 86 year old widow that gave you TWO GRAND doesn't make enough of an effort or always square everything up. Absolutely shame on you. One of the most disgraceful posts I've ever read on here.

The nastiness on this thread is simply shocking. People are reading their own agenda into what are reasonable questions and follow up points from the OP.

She is in no way coming across as mercenary or money grabbing - just because someone pays extra off their mortgage doesn't mean they're rolling in it. It just means they've prioritised repaying the mortgage over buying treats or going on holiday or buying a new sofa or whatever else another person might do with a significant cash gift. Or actually, it looks like most people would actually keep 50% of a cash gift aside so they can repay the gift giver. What utter nonsense.

Op, you might have had a fairer response if you hadn't mentioned the unusually large (and apparently one-off?) gift. It has skewed people's views in all sorts of crazy ways.

I'm glad you and your DH have been able to have a sensible discussion, and come to an agreement on how to move forward.

With regard to people saying that you need to stop accepting sponsorship or gifts to your children from FIL. How ridiculous. He's allowed to gift or sponsor anyone as much as he chooses - the op or her dh should not be policing that. But don't pay on his behalf any more. Ask him to send a cheque or put the cash aside for your next visit. And if it doesn't materialise that's absolutely fine.

My wonderful grandmother, a widow on a pension with no real assets, gave each of her 9 grandchildren 50 each for birthdays right until she died at 96. A lot of money. As she aged, the cards were bought and the money withdrawn by her adult children, and over time they even had to write the cards for her. But she was still adamant it happened. That was her choice and it was very important to her. Like her, your FIL is entitled to spend his money in any way he chooses. As long as he's actually spending his money and not yours.

Thank you BadTiger. I've been finding the nastiness shocking too. I have reported this to HQ but they don't seem to have a stance on bullying. I need to stop responding to the trolls and people who get their rocks off by belittling other I think. In amongst that are some thoughtful responses though. I mentioned the large Xmas gift as it's the honest context and I think it does change the way the situation could be viewed so to leave it out would make it harder for people to give constructive thoughts.

86!
Jesus. YABU and grabby.

You simply can't expect your FIL to stock up food for your visit. He's 86 and selfish. I don't know how you know he has £300k in the bank.
I struggle to believe this is real. If it is YABU

You simply can't expect your FIL to stock up food for your visit.

I simply don't, which you would simply know if you simply read the information.

Well a lot of people have not been nasty, Sunglasslover, understand your concerns and try to find a compromise favourable to both you and your 86 year old father in law.

Wish you all the best.

This really surprises me. It would not bother me in the slightest to have to take a few basic provisions with me. If I was doing DIY or picking up bits and pieces my in laws (or any elder in my family) I would refuse payment to be honest. I would see it as an opportunity to help out a family member, it would make me feel good. Seriously, gifts of that amount of money are extraordinarily generous. Incredibly generous. Very few people receive such generous gifts.

It sounds to me like he is a naturally generous person and so doesn't account for the mindset of people who are not like that. He probably thinks he would never dream of asking you for such small amounts of money so can't really fathom that you would ask it from him.

Instead of focussing on his perceived flaws maybe try and focus on his strengths. This may help you to have a more generous outlook.

I hear you OP. I have an in-law who likes to give rather generous amounts of cash as gifts, or is quick to ‘loan’ money, almost insistent, when like you we’re coping just fine.

They then somehow feel they have the right to expect certain privileges, and because they didn’t have children, have a say on what we do for the children. Every time we go to visit dh and I are expected to cook and put away whatever meal they want. They justify it by throwing ££s around.

I’m sick of it, and really wish dh would say no. But he thinks it will hurt in-laws feelings.

My in-law is not an OAP, but I expect this to continue for many years to come.

You don't sound unreasonable to me.

Have you ever made an excuse and not gone with DH and DC? Perhaps if your DH had to deal with the shopping and cooking instead of you it would change his attitude. It's weird to me that you do all the shopping and cooking when it's not your dad.

You do seem to struggle to think outside the box though...

He doesn't order in food for your visit because likely he has no idea what and how much, if you never said anything first time he likely now assumes you'll just sort it when you get there.

So pack a coolbox and get over yourself or if you REALLY are so terrified of getting the plague from bread and milk thats sat in a car for a bit.... order it online to be delivered to his house (and let him know it will be arriving before you!)

How often does he give you a generous gift .. was the 1k each a one off or is that annual.
If its annual, then yep, YABU.

If it was a one off then I think you need DH to have a chat with him and ask if going forwards, he can put money into your account for whatever he needs you to sort out IF his purchases are more than a couple of 100 over the year.

Power of attorney is set up for the future but perhaps it's worth re-visiting the here and now. Maybe my OH needs a second bank card of his dad's. I might suggest that to him. If he and his sister are both OK with it and FIL thinks it's a good idea this could be a useful step to take.
Noooo! POA isn't so that you can have unfettered access to someone else's money!
You only see your FIL every couple of months. It's amazing how much someone of his age can deteriorate in that time. He is NOT going to change his ways now, OP.
You said you try to arrive at midnight as that suits you better, so you don't actually need anything apart from breakfast food, which you've already agreed you can take with you in the car. Your DH has been clear about this, he doesn't want to ask your FIL for the money. His choice. He's not enabling his father, he's fine with his dfs behaviour. Can you not afford the small amount of money you're talking about? Your DH will benefit from any improvements on the house eventually. (Unless FIL has changed his will and left everything to the cats home)!

He's not enabling his father, he's fine with his dfs behaviour.

He's not fine with it at all. He thinks he's inhospitable and often embarassing. He just can't bring himself to ask.

We will not benefit from improvements in the house. They are remedial repairs in a house which will only be of interest to a developer when the time comes. It is is a terrible state but FIL would not let MIL upgrade things. We are happy for DH to help out in that way though, the time investment is no issue, it's just what you do for family.

Noooo! POA isn't so that you can have unfettered access to someone else's money!

Just to be clear, we'd not want unfettered access! It could just be to help him get the things he needs. We would not dream of spending his money on us or the kids.