to expect my FIL to pay what he owes!

[73Sunglasslover]

My FIL lives by himself. He's elderly but in reasonable health most of the time. He is quite well off (over 300K in the bank we think) but doesn't spend much as he prefers a quiet life and simple things.

The issue is that he asks us to get things - like DIY stuff so my OH can fix things which are broken when we visit (we don't mind doing this) and presents for the kids (he says can you put £50 in a card for them from me) - but without prompting will usually not pay us back. My OH and I have completely joint finances. I bring home twice as much as him (irrelevant really, but just for context).

He is generous at other times, e.g. he gave us £1000 each (me and OH for Xmas last year). My OH says that because of this we can't ask him to pay us back as it's too awkward. But I say that we put that cash into the mortgage so don't actually have it to give to the kids and anyway he gave it as a gift, not a fund for us to hold for him to spend when he wants/ needs to.

I find FIL really difficult. He's used to thinking only of him, so for example when we visit, it takes around 6 hours to drive to his. He doesn't get milk or bread in for us or any other food. After we arrive I have to go to the supermarket to stock up on basics. His wife died a couple of years ago and he's been trained to be inept (or lazy??) around the house so I don't expect him to cook us meals but to order an extra pint of milk and buy enough bread for us all to have breakfast is really no big ask and certainly within his capabilities. I can't figure out whether my OH is being unreasonable or whether my frustration at being expected to join my OH's family in treating my FIL like someone who really can't do anything for anyone else is clouding my thinking about this.

YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

YANBU - FIL should reimburse you and if he doesn't do it without prompting it's reasonable to expect OH to prompt him.

When I stop with family in another country I buy a dinner and takeaway. I get a gift to say thanks for hosting. You on the other hand are expecting an elderly widow to go food shopping and host you. That's a lot for an elderly person to do. Perhaps you could get there and order a takeaway and pay for it yourself out of the thousands he has given you.

Stuff My Family Will Eat That Does Not Have Little Bits in it Mummy 

That properly made me as that's my family too.

If we 're going to get into it = freeze the milk, it'll keep everything else cold. If it worries you, don't take raw meat, it's perfectly possible to live for a few days without meat, or if you're a proper carnivore have tinned or cooked meat.

Still no response to the suggestion you order a shop to be delivered while you're there.

Yes, he should be more thoughtful. He isn't. But then he gives you great wads of cash. I think you have to take it or leave it really.

What!?! He gave you each £1,000 for Christmas which is incredibly generous and kind. Take it all on the chin!!

*Hatred?! Where?

In fact don't bother to explain I will leave it there. Dear me*

It's alright, I don't mind you asking. Here:

Bloody hell, you cheeky sod.

YABVVVVU and mercenary

One of those who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

You are sounding like a gold digger Op

Sounds like you are already totting up what inheritance you are getting and you can't be arsed visiting.

Another one gobsmacked by the food. We regularly travel for holidays with food packed in cool boxes with ice packs and things that were frozen can be kept frozen if they're properly packed, for at least six-seven hours if not more. And he's elderly and never had to think about these things until now. Cut him some slack and get your own food in, either bring it or order it to arrive just after you do.

I actually think YANBU.

You can't give someone a gift expecting something in return. So it's not FIL's petty cash fund, it's a gift. He can't then spend the money he's given to you.

He probably just forgets. My elderly uncle was the same, and in the end he just added me as a name on his bank and I got a card to use whenever I bought his things. Remind him. He shouldn't mind. There is nothing wrong with getting money back that you are owed.

God, this is petty.

Use a cold box and some ice blocks. If properly paranoid, freeze milk etc before packing in the box. I have done this for festivals and my spare frozen pint of milk has still been cold/partially frozen by day 3, even in summer 2018 when it was 30C. So, it will easily survive a 6 hour journey.

I don't know where anyone things I've said I can't transport bread and cereal! I have no issues with dried foods being in the car for days and never said otherwise! I am talking about fridge foods. Perhaps other people have better freezer boxes or something but we have tried this when camping and the yogurts were warm when we arrived. We can agree to disagree about the risks though - and perhaps also the value of on-line shopping! I do get things delivered occasionally but the number of substitutions means I have to go to the shops anyway which somewhat defeats the object. It does actually suit better for me to go out shopping after I get there as that way I can talk to FIL about what he wants too and we plan the meals around what activities he wants to do. I don't mind doing some shopping, it just feels like it's not too much to, as someone said, ask him to order an extra pint of milk and pick up an extra loaf of bread so we don't have to go out straight away. But OH won't do that.

Yes I'm married. His wife was my MIL and is sorely missed. She was a wonderful MIL and I have always felt lucky to have had her in my life,. and my kids lives.

Your ice packs must have been shit if they didn't keep stuff cold on a 6 hour journey. Did you forget to freeze them?

You're coming up with every excuse under the sun not to sort out a problem that you know occurs every time you get there. If you arrive at midnight, take bread and milk with you and sort the rest in the morning after breakfast. No need to be taking meat/yoghurt anywhere. Or send dp out to get supplies. I bet FIL isn't confident with what to buy so just gets nothing. Have you tried asking "FIL seeing as we'll arrive late, could you please get green milk and a loaf of bread so we can have breakfast? We'll sort out a shop when we get up the next day?".

Can we move away from the food issue to the actual question? I don't want people to talk me into buying a fancier freezer box to solve this problem. We have got to the best solution (for us) to this problem and that's not really that relevant.

I wouldn’t bother with putting money in a card for the kids unless he gives it to you.

As you’re using the gift he has given you to pay off the mortgage which benefits you all.

I’d also be upset at no food at the end of a six hour journey but I’d pack bread and long life milk and cereal. Take sandwiches in a cool bag to eat. Then either do an online shop to be delivered the following day or go out and shop myself.

Perhaps you could get there and order a takeaway and pay for it yourself out of the thousands he has given you.

Actually an amusing idea when you know the man! He would be horrified! He wants chicken and potatoes and nothing fancier. So that's what I cook when we visit. I also batch cook scones for his freezer (with the ingredient I buy). There's a lot of assumptions being leaped to here. I don't expect him to 'do the food shopping' and there is no way he could be seen as 'hosting' as we do all the work (cleaning, washing) whilst we're there alongside fixing anything that's broken. This is all fine and we expect no credit for it. As someone said it's what family do for each other.

Just stop at a corner-shop when you're nearly there for the milk. Then you don't have to drag out again.

That isn't hatred that's how you are portraying yourself

It does actually suit better for me to go out shopping after I get there

Why did you whinge about it in the OP then?

As for the rest of it, yes YABU there too. He gave you £2000 between you and you want him to reimburse you for smaller spends during the year. Get him to give the kids their birthday money in person when you see him.

Given his generosity at Christmas i’d let the money thing go. Lack of basics in for a visit following long trip is inexcusably rude though. I’d ask your dh to have a gentle word, or I’d do it myself I think.

Also I don’t think your petty if that helps!

The money side would be irrelevant to me. The attitude of not bothering to sort things out for himself would bother me a lot.

Making sure you have a few essentials in for visitors you know are coming is not hard, it just takes the skill or effort of noticing. Whether you see it as a skill or an effort makes a big difference to how you perceive the lack of noticing. I can't help thinking that some people just can't be bothered to notice. It's not hard.

Mind you, I know one of my kids needs to be coached in detail to notice things, so I'm aware that some people just don't get it. Could you get specific and ask him to make sure that there is enough food in for breakfast when you arrive, and say you'll do a shop the next day?

FIL seeing as we'll arrive late, could you please get green milk and a loaf of bread so we can have breakfast? We'll sort out a shop when we get up the next day?".

Yes I managed to persuade OH to ask for this once. FIL did it. It was a great help. He hasn't done it since and OH won't ask again.

People saying about long life milk. You are right, we could take that. But we don't like it. I would rather go out to buy milk than drink long life. So that's what we do. It's not that it's impossible to get milk it's just that it feels very unwelcoming not to have got milkman to deliver one extra or pick up extra pine when he's at the supermarket.

YABU. You’ve come up with just about every excuse under the sun as to why you shouldn’t have to inconvenience yourself for or show any generosity towards a man who give you A THOUSAND POUNDS at Christmas. I also have no idea what you’ve done wrong with the cool box and ice packs since I accidentally left some sausages in a cool bag in my very warm kitchen for about 6 hours the other day and they were still cold when I found them. And that wasn’t with ice packs or any sort of fancy ice box, it was a bog standard M&S “keep cool” bag that cost about a quid. My kitchen is 23°C usually and they were still cold, yet somehow your yoghurts managed to warm up sufficiently in the same space of time to be entirely inedible and meat products basically become radioactive?!

There’s a lot of excuses in your posts OP. Perhaps if you tried losing some of them and showing the same sort of generosity towards your FIL as he does to you then you might be a bit less annoyed with him. Won’t be forever after all will it? You’ll inherit soon enough I shouldn’t worry- feed him the radioactive chicken if needs be I reckon.

You have an OH problem if your FIL will get things in if promoted but your OH doesn't want to do this.

How often do you visit? Assume it can't be that often given the distance.

Also I don’t think your petty if that helps!

It does, thanks! I agree with you. I think it's rude too. He's not used to thinking of others at all which makes him hard to be around. I seem to have side-tracked the conversation by mentioning this but it was supposed to be just demonstrating that my frustration at such little thought for others makes me wonder whether I am not seeing the money issue clearly. I don't actually care too much what others think about the not getting enough milk in. I know the man and know that he easily can do that much!

YANBU, IMHO. If he says something's a present, he can't then hold it over you to say he never has to pay for stuff bought for his place etc.

So ungrateful OP. Give the man a break and just pick up your own milk. He won't be around much longer.

Why did you whinge about it in the OP then? confused

Have you actually read my posts????????