to expect my FIL to pay what he owes!

[73Sunglasslover]

My FIL lives by himself. He's elderly but in reasonable health most of the time. He is quite well off (over 300K in the bank we think) but doesn't spend much as he prefers a quiet life and simple things.

The issue is that he asks us to get things - like DIY stuff so my OH can fix things which are broken when we visit (we don't mind doing this) and presents for the kids (he says can you put £50 in a card for them from me) - but without prompting will usually not pay us back. My OH and I have completely joint finances. I bring home twice as much as him (irrelevant really, but just for context).

He is generous at other times, e.g. he gave us £1000 each (me and OH for Xmas last year). My OH says that because of this we can't ask him to pay us back as it's too awkward. But I say that we put that cash into the mortgage so don't actually have it to give to the kids and anyway he gave it as a gift, not a fund for us to hold for him to spend when he wants/ needs to.

I find FIL really difficult. He's used to thinking only of him, so for example when we visit, it takes around 6 hours to drive to his. He doesn't get milk or bread in for us or any other food. After we arrive I have to go to the supermarket to stock up on basics. His wife died a couple of years ago and he's been trained to be inept (or lazy??) around the house so I don't expect him to cook us meals but to order an extra pint of milk and buy enough bread for us all to have breakfast is really no big ask and certainly within his capabilities. I can't figure out whether my OH is being unreasonable or whether my frustration at being expected to join my OH's family in treating my FIL like someone who really can't do anything for anyone else is clouding my thinking about this.

YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

YANBU - FIL should reimburse you and if he doesn't do it without prompting it's reasonable to expect OH to prompt him.

WTF

I do however think your being awkward about taking food in a cooler box!

I am a worrier about off food after having 8 weeks of diarrhea a few years ago. It was horrible. I got thrombosed piles which are incredibly painful. I had to have lots of intrusive investigations and many rounds of antibiotics which made me feel like shit. I am very careful about cold foods now and can see that others are less worried than me. That's not the main point though. We never did find out what made me so ill BTW. Might not have been something I'd eaten anyway but I keep things in the fridge and wash hands well around raw meat and won't eat cold rice. Not too much of an impact on most of my life really.

Thank you for your kind words. Yes I have wondered about jealousy too as saying my FIL has a lot of cash is just a fact. It doesn't mean I'm after it.

The DIY jobs can’t involve huge amounts of money - he perhaps reckons you won’t resent a few pounds here and there

They are sometimes quite significant jobs but definitely not using up all the Xmas present. We just visited and this time it was £80. The house is old and unkempt so things do go wrong regularly and my OH is a very skilled DIYer so can fix things the average bod can't - hence the number of things to repair/ install.

Forgive me if I have got this wrong OP but when you mention jealousy, are you saying that you think that other posters are jealous because you have a minted FIL?

Forgive me if I have got this wrong OP but when you mention jealousy, are you saying that you think that other posters are jealous because you have a minted FIL?

That's what another posted suggested I believe. And I agreed that was a possibility.

Maybe your DH doesn’t want to ask his dad to pay back for small costs or to pay to get extra food ( not necessarily milk) in the house purely for your families benefit, regardless of how much money his dad has in the bank perhaps 4/5 times a year he wants to “treat him”.
My mum is exceedingly generous to my grown up children ( not to the extent of £1,000 Christmas gifts) insists on treating us to lunch or coffee out if we take her out in the car. She will occasionally ask us to pick up bits, do some diy etc. I would not dream of asking for the money back, even though she offers, cause she is my mum and I love her and like to help her, she has plenty of money by the way.
On the other hand my DH’s family count to the penny if they owe each other small amounts of cash, I find that unbearably sad and mean and refuse to take cash from my DH’s parents even though he is conditioned to do things that way.

It sounds too me like FIL was a unkind to his wife and your reluctance to make up for his unwelcoming behaviour results from that. Can you step back from the cooking, baking, shopping and organising and leave all the organisation to your partner? Your energy is not an indefinite source, you don't need to give it to someone unkind.

Get an online shop delivered to his house at the time you expect to arrive or do a click and collect at his nearest store so you can drive through without taking the kids out the car

You are getting a lot of YABU's but personally I would ask for the children's birthday cash from him as this is his gift (it's the thought that counts and all that) and is between him and your kids. But anything else I would just cover and take groceries when you visit. Would do that anyway despite the money he gave you - he's your dh's elderly dad.

Well seeing as the answers are so varied how about you show your FIL this thread next time you see him?

He is the only one who can solve your dilemma and I am sure he will be thrilled to read what you have written.

Problem solved!

Maybe your DH doesn’t want to ask his dad to pay back for small costs or to pay to get extra food ( not necessarily milk) in the house purely for your families benefit, regardless of how much money his dad has in the bank perhaps 4/5 times a year he wants to “treat him”.

It's not about the money in terms of the milk. The £1 for milk is not an issue for us or his dad. It's the effort. I don't think he wants to ask his dad to make that tiny extra effort. The money really is separate from that issue. I guess maybe he does feel like asking his dad to pick up an extra pint of milk when he's at the supermarket (he goes a couple of times a week) or putting a note out for the milkman is too much. I'm intrigued that I don't actually really know what is holding him back here (OH). Usually we talk about stuff. Perhaps we need to talk more about this. As someone else said, maybe I don't have a FIL problem. Maybe I have an OH problem.

Sadly we can’t change how selfish some people are and how they lack the social niceties that the majority of us have in terms of repaying things , thinking of others, social niceties etc. What you have described is very much like my own parent and for a long time this made me so annoyed and angry however I have realised that despite all my suggestions and prompts etc some people will continue to be how they are - only think of themselves , we can’t change how they are ( especially if they have been like this for years and facilitated by others to be allowed to be like this) however we can control how we react to it and how it makes us feel. I now have accepted this is how my parent is and I do not consider it personally at all- I know they show the same lack of social politeness to others as they do towards me. I therefore order an online shop , bring items on Visits etc so then I’m not once Again hurt and annoyed all over again. It’s sad that we something have to view things this way but you can control how this behaviour impacts you and protect yourself from the emotions it evokes.

@Wudgy

Thank you. Yes it does put it in perspective to remember that he is not singling me out. He's unwelcoming to everyone. He refuses to do his regular turn with the church 'house group' (they go to each other's houses in turn for tea and cake and to discuss religious things) as he can't make cake. I've offered to leave him a cake in the freezer or suggested people would be happy with something from the supermarket but no, he'd rather just leave it to someone else to do. one of the ladies really.

I guess one of the problems is that my OH is a facilitator and he tries to recruit me into similar actions and I'm not happy to be put in that position.

I would also consider the fact that perhaps your husband has had a lifetime of knowing that his dad has been inconsiderate/ not thinking of him etc so therefore he doesn’t want to ask for this effort to be made now for fear that it won’t be and reinforces how he thinks his father thinks of him- a self protective mechanism that he is maybe even unaware he is doing. Hope this makes sense !

Yabu. He is elderly. He lives on his own. I bet if it was your mum you would bring milk or pop out. He gives you £1k each and you are moaning. You are very lucky he treats you the same as his son. Now just be nice and considerate to him. My father never bought his grandchildren or me a birthday present once my mum died.

YABU - he probably gave you the lump sums to make up for the fact he doesn't pay you for these small amounts. You don't say how many kids you have but even if you have something like 5 then that's £250 - not much of £2k. You also say it you pay for DIY when you visit - at 6hrs a round trip I guess you don't visit every week? And if you know he doesn't have bread for you...bring one from home? Stop at the shop on the way knowing you will need it? He provided for your hubby for his entire childhood - whats a loaf of bread and a pint of milk?

How old is 'elderly' OP.

I don't think you would be unreasonable to ask for the money back by the way. I think the £1000 is a bit of a red herring tbh.

The way your OH refuses to ask him for anything is odd. Also the way his personality deteriorates around his father. Do the two of them have adult conversations? You mentioned that your OH has sisters. How do they get on with their father? I'm suspecting a rather strange dynamic.

Financial generosity doesn't make up for emotional meanness. And to me, your father in law does sound mean to the point of cruelty to your poor mother in law.

People often seem to make the mistake of thinking of the elderly as all being little old dears. In my experience age doesn't guarantee either wisdom or kindness. People tend to hang onto the flaws in their character perfectly well as they age.

How old is he?

@Beansandcoffee

It sounds like you have had a difficult time with your dad. I don't belittle how generous 1k is. It's a massive gift. It's the most massive gift I've ever received. But is it s gift if it's a kitty? is it a gift if it's buying my collusion with what's not right in the future? Perhaps I should have given it back with very big thanks but a note that it was just too much as a gift. I did think about that but thought that would come across as cruel and ungrateful. If it were my mum I'd say 'mum you need to get enough milk in for all of us, at least to last for breakfast'. Unless she were too ill to do so of course. My mum had many faults but this was not one of them. She was a welcoming host except when the chemo took hold and she could barely function.

And lets do some sums.

Lets say 3 kids at £50 each. That's £150.
Plus 5 visits per year at say £100 DIY costs per time. Total now £650. Plus sponsorships and other incidentals, say £200. Total now £850.

That's quite a chunk really. Especially as the OP said that the £1000 was exceptional and they do not expect it every year.

£1000 each is a big gift. Very generous. Lovely. But it is irrelevant to the fact that the man should be paying back money that you are spending for his convenience. It is not up to you to spend an extra £50/head on your children on his behalf and it is also not up to you to pay for his polyfiller and copper piping. It seems to me that actually you are already giving him large amounts of your family time in order to make his life easier.

And no, nobody lives forever, but I bet a week at the seaside would be more fun than hanging round the house of a selfish and thoughtless old man who can't be bothered to pick up an extra pint of milk and loaf of bread for his family's breakfast.

You say he's elderly OP so I don't think it's necessarily a 'selfish' thing but more of a 'generational' thing - like it or not men of your FIL's age and my parent's ages - traditionally the wife saw to all things like food planning, getting in groceries etc.

I think he's just not used to thinking about others - he's obviously not tight-fisted as the generous amounts he gave to you and your OH prove.

Also, as a visitor I always bring food and goodies with me when visiting relatives - don't you and your OH do that? I wouldn't dream of turning up empty handed.

Whilst I agree you have some really rude responses such as gold digger etc (is there any need to be so vile ffs), I do think YABU - these are relatively small amounts and whilst visiting family I would never expect them to be reimbursed for things like DIY etc - I'd always see it as doing a favour for my parent and not expect payment.

The way your OH refuses to ask him for anything is odd. Also the way his personality deteriorates around his father. Do the two of them have adult conversations? You mentioned that your OH has sisters. How do they get on with their father? I'm suspecting a rather strange dynamic.

Your suspicions will all be supported I think! They have entirely one sided conversations where my OH listens to his dad and then get met with silence or minimal interest when he talks about himself. His sister has married a horrid selfish man who, thank god, she is in the process of divorcing (after 25 years together). He leaves me cold and I wonder if he's a sociopath as he's highly manipulative and cold. We have wondered what her role model was to fall for him. She is his only surviving sister. His younger sister died of cancer a decade ago. His surviving sister is not able to stand back from the dynamics so when he has some bleeding from his bottom (piles) and goes into a panic, she calls us to say my OH has to go up there even though he does the childcare when I work and I work for the NHS which is really not a very flexible employer. FIL convinces SIL that he needs looking after and she goes straight to that rather than seeing the 'looking after' as potentially remote emotional support. I do fear, I suppose, that he will devour us if I don't stand strong - that sounds a bit histrionic so maybe I should re-word. OH will jump to going away for a week plus when his father has this sort of minor (but to him very worrying) health issue. I have to remind him that his sister is panicking, his dad is panicking and that I will lose my job if I can't go into work due to childcare. I am not totally inflexible BTW. His mum took a very long time to die after a perforated ulcer. It was horrific for all, including of course FIL. My OH went up there and sat in a 24 hour vigil with his sister who had flown over from the US (they took it in 12 hour shifts) to be by her side at all time. I told him not to worry about us. I would cover things. And I called in every favour I could get my hands on and took as much leave as I could do keep things ticking along here. It was exhausting but I would do it again for him or for anyone as wonderful as my MIL. I would do it again for FIL too and indeed did a mini version when he was genuinely ill with pnemonia. I will not do it for a bit of bleeding from piles (an issue with which I am well acquainted!).

What is the world coming to 2k for xmas and 50 quid for kiddie birthdays... Materialistic meaningless, awful

He's 86 btw. Sorry to take ages to answer a simple question!

*And lets do some sums.

Lets say 3 kids at £50 each. That's £150.
Plus 5 visits per year at say £100 DIY costs per time. Total now £650. Plus sponsorships and other incidentals, say £200. Total now £850.*

We've 2 kids. It's £50 at each birthday. We see him at Xmas so the last couple of years he's given them something then. I don't think we spend £100 each time so the actual total is less than this. £200 - £250 I'd say. Not £850.