Should I escalate a staff member grabbing my son and calling him a liar?

[RHSDrama]

I was in a RHS garden today, in the restaurant at lunch with DS (7) and DD (3). It was packed. We were by the sandwiches and DS had chosen. I was bending down helping DD when I noticed a bit of a kerfuffle next to me and heard a MOS staff say DS “come with me”. I stood up and he had grabbed my sons arm and was leading him away, DS had gone a bit frozen and looked upset.

I followed obvs and they stopped a few feet away the guy pointed at a piece of Blu Tac and said “what’s that?” DS said “I don’t know, I’m sorry” and the guy said “don’t LIE you LIAR, throw your rubbish in the bin!” At which point I said something like “DO NOT speak to my son like that” and the guy sort of half ran away without meeting my eye.

DS, who is lovely and well behaved little boy was quite upset and a bit tearful, so I reassured him and got in the queue to pay. The MOS passed again and I stopped him and said “grabbing my son is completely unacceptable etc etc” and he said “don’t worry, it’s OK” then hustled off again.

Queuing up I was getting more and more aggy about it, especially the bit where he grabbed my sons arm to take him away from me... this very obviously a small child standing next to his mother??

So I spoke to the manager, she was apologetic and I saw her speaking to him. Five minutes later he was back out by the tables.

ANYWAY so sorry this is so long but I’m now wondering whether to email the garden to follow up? Or accept the that I’ve informed the manager and leave it there?

P.S the blu tac wasn’t my sons, the manager confirmed it was there to hold up a sign which had fallen off.

@IfWishesWereFishes I agree it's wrong to call the police but you are deliberately downplaying what the OP said happened.

A stranger grabbed her child and physically led him several feet away from her where he proceeded to shout at the child and accuse him of doing something he didn't and called him a liar.

It's very worrying if you think that is a normal or acceptable way for an adult to behave.

You know, I was just waiting for someone to say exactly that. That I must think it's normal.

The level of debate on here these days is rock fucking bottom.

I didn't say it was normal; I said it's not really a police matter. The OP herself said it was 'a few steps'. Can't really imagine what would need to be investigated here. The guy acted wrongly, but that's really it.

Why is wrong to call the police? Adult men can't go around grabbing children they don't know and terrorising them! This is not acceptable AND it's common assault! If the management did nothing about it...then the police will. He will probably be interviewed and that would be enough to show him AND his employers that this is NOT on. People like that get kicks out of what he did...show him he won't get away with it!

And show your son that his personal safety is valuable!

Fishes you can't imagine what needs to be investigated? Really? You'd be fine about some man grabbing your arm like that and pulling you would you? Or your child?

It's wrong. He needs to be told properly and warned.

Fucking hell, I didn't say it was fine! Stop making shit up to dramatise your point.

I’m not one to cause a scene or complain, but in this instance I would be writing a formal complaint. Really not ok to treat a small child in this manner.

I would escalate it. I'd email the senior management at the gardens.

Why? Because I would expect the manager, having spoken to the person, to explain to me why they did it. Or get the person to explain themselves. Because I wouldn't expect that person to be back on the tables again in so short at time. Because that, to me, means the manager has given him a little talking to rather than the bollocking he deserves. Because senior management need to be aware that they have someone in the cafe who is capable of totally over reacting to blu tak which fell down from their own poster and that person is prepared to pull a young child away from their parent and call them a liar. Because I wouldn't think the manager of the cafe would report it further up the chain even though they should because it's a safeguarding issue.

For all those reasons I'd escalate it. What outcome would I want? That senior management has investigated, will tell me what happened and why and that the person concerned has received training or been taken off front of house duties until they can control their temper.

they stopped a few feet away not a few steps is what it says in the OP. That does make a difference and by minimising the language and saying that the child was unharmed ("DS, who is lovely and well behaved little boy was quite upset and a bit tearful") and not referring to the fact the child was grabbed and led away, it did appear that you were minimising the employee's behaviour Fishes.

I am glad that you've clarified that you don't think it's normal, but if you want a "debate" you really need to consider the evidence and not minimise the facts you've been given in the OP.

Fishes you seem to be a tad over emotional about people expressing themselves. Maybe you didn't say it was fine but you intimated that. Saying it's not really a police matter when it clearly IS a police matter.

A strange man grabs a child, pulls him and says "Come with me!" angrily.

Yeah...not ok at all. The man clearly needs help or telling what's not appropriate and since OP says the management did NOTHING to remove him...police it is.

I'm not over emotional. And I don't think there's any great victory to be won by pointing out that I mistakenly said steps when the OP used the word feet. There's probably inches between the two, if any difference. Nobody knows, and it doesn't matter a jot.

I just don't know why the police need to be involved. A thing happened. Nobody got hurt. It was over in, what, a minute? And it seems that the only correct opinion here is to want the person arrested and/or sacked.

But yeah, I'm over emotional.

In fact the OP herself says 'I took a few steps to where they were' followed by 'the whole thing was over in a few seconds' so tbh I'm not sure it can be downplayed any more than that!

Clarification: the whole thing took a few seconds, is what the OP said. Before,you know, my erroneous summary gets used to refute my point.

I would be disappointed with my dc if they’d dropped litter on the floor and expect them to be told so by any responsible adult. I can see I’m in a minority on this thread.

I would too Parsimon, although I wouldn’t expect the adult to grab and pull the child away from his mother.

However, the blutac was not on the floor, it had been stuck on a ledge by management, DS hadn’t touched it and it was nothing to do with him.

@Parsimon

You haven't read the post properly. Even the manager agreed the OP's son played no part in it.

I'm familiar with the set-up at RHS Wisley though I don't know if other RHS gardens are the same.

Many of the 'staff' are in fact volunteers. And for those of you who work in or with the voluntary sector, you'll know that recruitment and management of the volunteers can often be a thankless task - think herding cats! The good ones are priceless, but the not-so-good ones are a bloody nightmare.

I'd definitely complain. Keep it factual, describe to a tee the person who manhandled and barked at your son (unless you noted his / her name), and insist on a detailed response, i.e. not a "we've dealt with the matter" reply. Ask if their staff / volunteers have up to date DBS checks, although from what you've said, it sounds like someone who has extremely poor people skills and is unsuitable to be in a front of house position (or any position!).

I’m guessing that he thought your DS put chewed gum on the seat. Erroneously, and his reaction was totally out of line. I’d totally lose my shit if anyone touched my kid. Complain and mention safeguarding many times. Now I’m going to share an unrelated but funny story to cheer you up.

When my friend’s son was four, he was notorious for waiting to kick off with a MASSIVE tantrum when they had a full trolley in the supermarket. She happened to have her DH with her this day, who decided to carry him out to the car so she could pay in peace. This kid started screaming “Help! Help!!! THIS MAN IS NOT MY FATHER!!!” at the top of his lungs - which were operatically inclined. Never mind that this kid is basically a clone of her DH (who obviously IS his father.) He did not know what to do, and just froze!!! My friend just snapped at him, “OMG!!! Just look at him! He clearly IS his father!!! Take him to the car, I’ll be out in a minute.” The checkout operator smiled and told her that she remembered that little boy was hers anyway 😱😱😱😱😱

Complain formally hinting that you will report to police as assault on a child if it is not dealt with to your satisfaction, or just go straight to the police if you feel strongly enough. In your position I think I probably would.

You can't 'insist on a detailed response' to be fair though. You can ask for one, but you're not entitled to know how people are disciplined in their workplace. I mean, if they're smart they'll do their utmost to show they've dealt with it properly, but insisting they share their disciplinary policy with you might just set you on a hiding to nothing.

So, adult male, grabs young child, drags him away from his mother and shouts at him.... Fine
Mother punches grown man for grabbing her young child, dragging them away from her and shouting at them..... She's a violent thug who will be sent to prison.

OK then........ 🤔

On reflection the MOS should definitely be reported to the police for assault. That will force managers to take action which they have singularly failed to do at the time of the incident. If you are reluctant don't wait 10 days for a reply to an email, 24 hours at most, that will tell you if they are taking it seriously or not.

Agree with Inky.

I hope no one at one of the eight RHS cafes that exist is reading this. There can't be more than 20 male RHS cafe staff in the UK.

I wonder how every one of these 20 men is feeling about being accused of assault, child abduction, and terrorising a child. In public. On SM.

Or how happy they are that Mumsnet posters in their multitudes are demanding they are physically attacked eg throatpunched, sacked, and have the police called on them.

Assaults on staff in the leisure industry are disproportionately common. Might these 20 men feel threatened, menaced or at risk?

We know where they work, of course, so it would be all too easy to find them in person.

I would be disappointed with my dc if they’d dropped litter on the floor and expect them to be told so by any responsible adult. I can see I’m in a minority on this thread.

What has that got to do with this situation?

nothing will happen

your word against the staff members

escalate it and they will just say they will offer further training or something similar.....they won't do anything more as staff member was spoken to and deemed ok to continue work. it will be forgotten about by now