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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask supporters of porn to read this

608 replies

SmileEachDay · 29/10/2019 16:25

meaww.com/missing-teen-adult-video-pornhub-modelhub-snapchat-periscope

A missing 15 year old girl was spotted in videos hosted by Pornhub. Those of you who are “ok” with porn - are you “ok” with this?

The sentence the man involved in making the videos is for another thread, but is shocking.

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 03/11/2019 17:13

I think we shouldn’t get drawn into a debate about coffee as it’s just feeding in to the gaslighting which prevents people focusing on the important matter of the thread

Quite.

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frostedviolets · 03/11/2019 17:14

If certain posters want to start a thread about exploitation in the coffee industry, please feel free to do so. I promise so won’t come on twist the debate into a discussion about porn. Because that would be pointless, wouldn’t it?

Hardly twisting the debate when you yourself brought it up in a debate about porn 😂

Ironic though, the fact that genuinely ethical porn exists, 'Erika Lust for example, where genuinely ethical coffee probably doesn't.

Obviously we should all stop drinking coffee with immediate effect.

And start orgasming to lots of porn instead
👍

Aashna · 03/11/2019 17:19

Yawn.

PencilsInSpace · 03/11/2019 17:20

And revolting to think you might be getting off sexually to abuse or crime ‘by mistake’.

Yes this is what I just cannot get my head round.

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TatianaLarina · 03/11/2019 17:21

Campaign for regulation

genuinely ethical porn exists

How naive can you possibly be?

frostedviolets · 03/11/2019 17:23

Yawn

Whenever you are ready to actually respond to the points raised, you know, like you are supposed to in a grown up debate..

I say one thing, you come with an opposing view, I respond etc

'Yawn' doesn't really count.

TatianaLarina · 03/11/2019 17:24

Erika Lust as a brand has existed by not acknowledging these incidents but instead burying the experiences of unethical working practices and abusive behaviour on their productions, under the self-imposed and self-proclaimed banner of “ethical porn”.

Only to further endanger the lives of Performers and crew.

Erika Lust exists and continues to exist under this self -imposed and self-proclaimed banner of “ethical porn” despite evidence of the contrary.

TatianaLarina · 03/11/2019 17:25

Grown ups don’t claim porn can be regulated.

BertrandRussell · 03/11/2019 18:02

“ Seek out and pay for ethical porn companies.
They aren't hard to find, few seconds on google will reveal them. ”
Great. And we get everyone to do that exactly how? My understanding is that ethical porn is a tiny minority of the industry.

TatianaLarina · 03/11/2019 18:09

Quite apart from the question of whether prostitution/sex for money can ever really be ‘ethical’.

frostedviolets · 03/11/2019 18:50

Great. And we get everyone to do that exactly how? My understanding is that ethical porn is a tiny minority of the industry

Publicise it more I suppose?
Or get rid of the video streaming free sites as I suggested upthread so only actual businesses working to strict regulations are left?

Quite apart from the question of whether prostitution/sex for money can ever really be ‘ethical’

I see no reason why it can't be ethical if the men and women are there by their own choice and treated well and paid well.

When sex becomes unethical it is surely because the men and women involved are working against their will and are being ill treated?

There is nothing bad about sex itself.

frostedviolets · 03/11/2019 18:52

Grown ups don’t claim porn can be regulated

Why couldn't it be exactly?

Aashna · 03/11/2019 18:54

Every time you click on a free site such as YouPorn or whatever, you are inevitably reinforcing and thereby colluding with an industry that exploits women. It really is as simple as that. Even if only 5% of the women have experienced abuse or coercion on their way to appearing in the videos, that should be enough for most people. Wouldn’t you think? Yet it’s easier to apply cognitive dissonance and deflect to talk about coffee or something.

Aside from the potential backgrounds and circumstances of the “actors”, the misogynistic language of the video titles should be enough for anyone with an ounce of integrity. Imagine replacing such intensely misogynistic titles with ones that were equally racist or homophobic. Just think about that for one second. The sites would be taken down and there would be (rightly) public outrage. Yet, because it’s women, the basic human standards apparently don’t seem to apply. How is this?

There is obviously the issue of violence against women becoming normalised in terms of sexual practice and how exposure to porn can effectively “rewire” the brain etc etc. We all know this - it’s obvious. It’s particularly damaging for the younger generations and there are, of course, the obvious ramifications for women’s status on a societal level. But never mind eh, because... er .... Primark? Coffee?

Aashna · 03/11/2019 19:14

“There is nothing bad about sex itself.”

Well who knew? Thankyou for explaining that to the people.

frostedviolets · 03/11/2019 19:24

Every time you click on a free site such as YouPorn or whatever, you are inevitably reinforcing and thereby colluding with an industry that exploits women. It really is as simple as that. Even if only 5% of the women have experienced abuse or coercion on their way to appearing in the videos, that should be enough for most people. Wouldn’t you think? Yet it’s easier to apply cognitive dissonance and deflect to talk about coffee or something

You can say exactly the same for literally, pretty much everything!

The same applies to a huge variety of food and drink, hair extensions, cosmetics, the list just goes on and on.

It is horrific and I like most people try to do what I can, I buy certified products, I don't have hair extensions etc but ultimately you can't avoid it.

Even fair trade labels aren't always actually a guarantee of fair treatment.
Though it obviously massively ups the odds.

Aside from the potential backgrounds and circumstances of the “actors”, the misogynistic language of the video titles should be enough for anyone with an ounce of integrity. Imagine replacing such intensely misogynistic titles with ones that were equally racist or homophobic. Just think about that for one second. The sites would be taken down and there would be (rightly) public outrage. Yet, because it’s women, the basic human standards apparently don’t seem to apply. How is this?

I do not agree with those titles.

I don't know if you read the full thread or not but I don't think porn should include sexist and/or derogatory titles, nor do I agree that videos depicting violence or non consent should be available.

I suspect that quite a few porn users feel the same.

There is obviously the issue of violence against women becoming normalised in terms of sexual practice and how exposure to porn can effectively “rewire” the brain etc etc. We all know this - it’s obvious. It’s particularly damaging for the younger generations and there are, of course, the obvious ramifications for women’s status on a societal level

I do not agree with porn that depicts violence and/or non consent.

As I said upthread, I watch a lot of porn, I must have watched thousands of videos, absolutely none depicting violence and non consent.

Porn is not exclusively violence and non consent.
There is plenty of consensual, normal material on there.

The issue of violence and disrespect towards women is not solely porn.

It is also depictions in the (non erotic) media.

It is also piss poor, horrifying legal judgement like using a pair of thongs as evidence for rape despite the fact the rapist wouldn't have seen them until deciding to rape and letting Gasgoyne getting away with sexual abuse because the victim was unattractive.

It is also the failure to teach boys and girls what constitutes a healthy relationship early on.

It is also the mindset that women, when it comes to sex are a totally different entity when it comes to sex.
Man shags 100 women = sex God
Woman shags 100 men = tramp
The idea that a man who wants to be a pornstar is a normal man with a high sex drive while the woman who wants to be a pornstar is obviously deeply damaged and abused.
Bullshit like that.

It is depictions in video games and gang culture and so many other things.

Does porn depicting extreme stuff and non consent and violence also contribute though?
Yes.

But never mind eh, because... er .... Primark? Coffee?

Both Primark and Coffee are guilty of horrendous human rights abuse..

TatianaLarina · 03/11/2019 19:25

Or get rid of the video streaming free sites as I suggested upthread so only actual businesses working to strict regulations are left?

Why couldn't it be exactly?

BertrandRussell · 03/11/2019 19:28

“ You can say exactly the same for literally, pretty much everything! ”

TatianaLarina · 03/11/2019 19:28

Both Primark and Coffee are guilty of horrendous human rights abuse.

I don’t drink coffee or shop in Primark but on the plus side at least shoppers aren’t masturbating over the abuse, unlike you.

SmileEachDay · 03/11/2019 19:31

Both Primark and Coffee are guilty of horrendous human rights abuse

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SmileEachDay · 03/11/2019 19:31

I am done.

Your whataboutery has finished me off.

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Aashna · 03/11/2019 19:51

The point is that even if sweat shops and non-ethical coffee production were eliminated tomorrow, this would not have any impact on the porn industry. And that is what we’re discussing.

PencilsInSpace · 03/11/2019 19:57

Why couldn't it be exactly?

Because it's a global industry and we're not the boss of the world.

Because it's online and the tech moves a bajillionty times faster than legislation. The porn industry actually drives the tech a lot of the time.

Because there's a fuckton of money in porn and huge interests in circumventing any controls that limit the growth of the industry.

frostedviolets · 03/11/2019 20:26

Okay.

I think I have tried to put my view out here in a balanced and polite way, I have answered questions as best I can re avoiding exploitation, how to regulate etc but it is clear to me that like reanimated said, there is no getting people to even understand your viewpoint, sex is just a different entity.

I would argue because sexist ideas around women and sex are (clearly) still very prevalent, even amongst women.

Like reanimated said, you learn about abuse in a product, say coffee, people just buy a different brand of coffee.

You learn about abuse within porn and there is no trying a more ethical brand of porn, or campaigning for change if no alternative exists (which it does).
It has to be banned outright.

The whole thread has just been utterly repugnant and needlessly offensive from start to finish.

Outright labelling people, many of whom women, 'rape apologists', 'unbothered by abuse and suffering', 'complicit in suffering', 'orgasming to women being abused' etc when you know absolutely nothing about them just because they watch porn while you absolve yourselves of all responsibility while you yourselves all continue to use products that are the result of slavery and abuse, many non essential.

The hypocrisy is outstanding.

FYI I am very much a feminist.
I know victims of rape and domestic abuse and exploitation in all its forms repulses me.

I do what I can to help make the world a better place; I buy fair trade, i try to buy natural reusable materials etc.
There is only so much I can do, as with everyone else.

SmileEachDay · 03/11/2019 20:31

The whole thread has just been utterly repugnant and needlessly offensive from start to finish

The repugnant and offensive thing is the child who was raped on camera in my OP.

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