CoatZilla and the Barbour Boy- The Second Saga

[LanaKaneIsWeirdedOut]

Hey everyone!

Bloody hell, in all my years of MNing I've never had a response like this, I was really helped by loads of your replies, and loads made me giggle (Roast Potatoes!!) and loads made good points.

I'm sorry I can't reply to specific posts but seriously there's so many.

or for everyone who replied and is sticking with me.

So on to the update.....

CoatZilla, henceforth to be known as CZ, text again last night....

Here it is word for word.
mate, your obviously upset and that was never my intention. I'm sorry that we argued, I honestly didn't see the conversation going that way when I brought it up. I think it's better we let the dust settle for tonight in honesty. Probably best to have a calm conversation tomorrow evening?

My reply....
Yeah tomorrow evening much better I think

And she didn't come back last night (good!)

So she's made a mistake anyway......cos Dad was actually out last night ! So we'll all be sitting there when she comes back.

My plan is, to write a list of bullet points for tonight of things she definitely said, so I can't forget and she can't back out of it or claim she didn't say it (I also remembered another bit in the fucking row- where she went "Oh, so a fucking ghost did it?" in that tone of voice- fucking horrible)

Also to sit calmly and let her explain to my lovely Dad and DP that she thinks they might have maliciously cut her coat.

Then see what she says!

TBH unless she fucking grovels on her knees (not likely after that fucking last text- minimization or what??) I'm going to be asking her to pack her stuff.

I'm not being "spurred on by hysterical posters"

I have read all the replies, some have opened my eyes, some have been excusing, some have told me not to rock the friendship boat....overall I have taken a middle(ish) ground.....but tbh it's clear she is
a) weird/horrible enough to think that of her oldest friend and her family
b) fucking vicious in a row
c) now backtracking massively

So....thoughts???

And again for the troll hunters in the back......my username currently is always "LanaKanesomething", and I've had various other names going back years.....so bloody well report me and see what MN has to say, yeah?

I'd also be interested to know how she expected the conversation to go. I mean, she could have introduced the subject with "I found a tear on my new Barbour, I don't know how it happened." And you could have gone down the line of "Oh, where have you been wearing it? Could you have caught it on a nail? Where's it been in the house? Let me have a look and see if there's anything here it could have got caught on."

But she didn't. She went researching in the background, checked out the timeline, and was adamant that it happened a) in your house; b) deliberately.

The ghost comment is the clincher. She was accusing you and yours, and wanted you to own up. You haven't, so now she's trying to pretend she didn't accuse you.

Roll on tonight, I say. Be calm. Tell her the trust has gone, and why. Tell her the incident has highlighted for you that she goes out with other friends and doesn't invite you along, and your conclusion is that she doesn't really see you as a friend, more a convenience. And you would like her to find somewhere else to stay.

I’m not sure what it will achieve getting her to spell out what she actually said. The fact remains she’s been pretty horrible to you and she’s not behaving like a good friend.

I would cut the shit and come straight out with the thing that is really bothering you that she’s been going to other mutual friends and talking about you.

That way there can be no discussion back and forth about what she said and it cuts to the chase.

She’s a mean friend and she needs to move out.

Honestly, I'm more shocked that someone you were letting stay for free as a favour so that she could save for a house deposit, but who is not herself in financial need, sat in your house eating your meals and watching you try to stretch £30 to cover food for five people for a month without recognising she's a serious drain on resources and helping out.

I think the coat altercation only tipped you over the edge, OP, because she was so aggressive about it.

In your shoes, I think I would not endure a lengthy scene of her self-justification or the implication that you overreacted. I would cut her off civilly before she gets into her stride and say that for the sake of the feelings of everyone concerned, it would be best if she found somewhere else to live as soon as possible, and that you'd prefer to leave the matter there.

I agree with FrancisCrawford's suggested text. If it were me, I'd see the meeting tonight as a courtesy to her - a final chance to make amends. If she doesn't take it, then I'd just be asking her to leave, in the 'it'd be better for both of us' vein. Try not to lose your cool - just state the facts and leave the hard work up to her.

You could also text her a couple of quotes from what she said - e.g. the ghost comment. Don't even comment on them, just put them in inverted commas. Maybe followed by an exclamation mark or something. She's obviously rewriting history here, to others and possibly to herself.

Sad but it really seems unless she comes back with a heartfelt apology that the ship of this friendship has indeed sailed.

Are your dp and dad well enough for the chat? I mean, it’s anxiety causing all round.

I don’t blame you though OP.
She’s horrible. Good luck with your conversation.

If she tries to say she didn’t say it I’d instantly put a stop the conversation.

‘I can’t believe that firstly you had the audacity to accuse us of something so ridiculous and hurtful after everything we have done for you, but don’t you dare make me feel like I’m crazy in the process- you said XYZ, I have proof and you cannot backtrack.’

Oh yeah sorry - the bullet points are for me!
I like to do things like this otherwise I'm at risk of gaslighting being confused in a discussion arguement and this means it's in my head for when we speak later.
I won't be getting them out like minutes at a meeting

"I'm sorry we argued" implies there is some mutuality to the matter, an equal blame. You were defending yourself and your family against a wholly unfounded accusation. This is not "arguing" on your part. This statement alone is more gaslighting.

You often here of men who wait for years in a relationship before turning on the abuse. There may be a trigger kicking it off (e.g. the partner's pregnancy), but the underlying aggression/resentment was always there, always giving off little red flags. I believe toxic friendships can be the same. You can happily chug along for years, ignore little aggressions because they don't really amount to much in themselves, and then one day.....It wouldn't surprise me if she resents your happy circumstances; despite your financial worries and your DH's health, you seem like a solid, loving, mutually appreciative unit, with a lovely kid and dad. Plain old jealousy might have prompted her to manufacture this drama to try to burst your bubble. That's not the act of a friend.

'I'm sorry we argued' is not an acceptable apology. It implies six of one and half a dozen of the other, whereas what actually happened was a flurry of vicious accusations on her part. I might uncharitably read the bit about not having anticipated the conversation going that way as her having assumed that you would roll over, grovel and stump up for the coat.

Don't bring lists of bullet points. You have nothing to defend here. What you expect from her is a fulsome apology and sincere thanks for having allowed her to stay and supported her with food and fuel despite your own straitened circumstances. I'd let/make her begin the conversation. If she starts on about the coat again, you just say, 'Nobody here damaged your coat, and we are shocked and hurt at your behaviour.' Stuck record. I also think the PPs who suggested asking her how she envisages moving forward are on the right track. Ask her that. See what she suggests.

She'll probably be well aware that she's burnt her bridges with you (deliberately?) will waltz in, announce her departure and waltz out again with no apology.

On reflection, I'd text her:

"We'd like you to move out ASAP as we all feel that this is no longer working. We'll discuss dates when we see you later".

Thing is any apology is purely going to be self-serving. The only way I'd accept an apology is if she was still contrite a few weeks after she's found somewhere else to live/ no longer needs favours from you.

You cannot afford to keep her, it is costing you money you need to be spending on your child. And then she does all this on top of that - accusing you of vandalising her property, spending a week badmouthing you to others about it and telling you of it, letting you know at least two of these friends look down on you, dossing at yours (doesn't invite you out), eats food and leftovers when she knows you are brassic.

To be honest, the ghost comment wouldn't bother me that much. Its a flippant, dickish comment that was unnecessary but is only worth an equally ridiculous reply 'yeah, Casper's not getting enough attention now, he's decided to be a poltergeist'. Shuts it down completely.

The test cuts and being a detective about it are the things that would hurt me more than flippant comments. And that's what you need to focus on. Ask her.
Why didn't you just speak to me when you noticed?
Why did you feel the need to involve other people?
Why would you vandalise something to prove a theory?
Why didn't you trust me when I assured you that we as a family know nothing about it?

op I think you have handled it well at the end of the day this is your home and your child's home you should not feel nervous because if she has accused you of this there could be other accusations maybe you are right and a break would help you all?

I think she is backtracking and is going to say you have misunderstood this as an accusation. Obviously you haven't and her talking to other people about this confirms she did not believe there was no fault in your household.

Good luck for tonight, it's all just so strange

If she sits down with your dp and dad she will just deny and minimise. You'll end up looking like you were being dramatic and misconstrued her words.

Someone who buys expensive jackets while watching you struggle to pay for food while living with you is not your friend.

I'd calmly let her know that you are all offended and affected by her accusations and that she needs to find somewhere else to live. She will be much more affected by the feeling that your whole family are not ok with her than just you, who she is trying to gaslight and boss around as she thinks she can.

Great and insightful post, PJsatMidday.

Followed the last thread Lana I was upset for you and your family.

Whatever Barbourella's problem is, don't let her attempt to damage your lovely family.

I think that she envies the warmth you all have for each other.

A great pity she does not value it being shared with her.

As I said on the previous thread, if she had responded with a grovelling apology and outlined plans to make it up to you, then fair enough, there might be a chance of salvaging the friendship. But she hasn't. Look at what she has done:

-Lived with you at your expense
-Accused your family of deliberately damaging her property (with absolutely no evidence)
-Gaslighted you and minimised her behaviour (i.e emotionally abused you)
-Has made no attempt thus far to apologise or make it up to you

I cannot honestly see how you can continue the friendship, and I certainly don't think you can continue to let her live with you. What is she going to accuse you all of next time??

I am going to had to read the thread properly.

I made a massive mistake once that nearly cost a friendship. My friend went nuts and I am glad she did because I realised what I stood to lose. We then didn't speak for six months (she was pregnant, this is relevant but not going into it) and we are now friends again. I bought it up recently as I wanted to hear her side more. It was hard, hearing I broke her heart. At the same time I was going through a very shitty time with a diagnosis and I can see now I wasn't very well. I think length of friendship matters in these things. How many 20 year friends do any of us have? You can't replace that. I know that's what makes it hurt more, but equally in 20 more years time it would be a blip.

I can only think her housing situation has affected her state of mind. Maybe she is jealous of your lovely family. Its awful that she made you 'choose' who to believe.

She could have just mentioned the coat and how weird she doesn't know how it happened.

I can only think she is now playing it down. I would stick to saying I never thought in a million years I would have to defend my family. I'm sorry you think that etc.

Meant to add, also perversely resentful of the fact that, with everything you have going on, you have room (literally and figuratively) to be kind to her. A good person faced with an abundance of kindness from someone who has every reason to face away from the rest of the world might feel humbled. A bad person will feel shown up, embarrassed and angry.

She is still gaslighting you. “I’m sorry we argued”? No no no. That should read “I’m so sorry I crazily accused you of something which I really know you would never have done.”

She will have to go anyway op as you will never be comfortable with her now.

You will be walking on eggshells waiting for the next argument.

In my role as a PR, she seems to have a natural ability to avoid culpability and manage crisis control!

For example, when addressing complaints through the media, spokespeople are trained to say "we are sorry that anyone was offended by..." and "we are sorry if anyone feels that..." which is essentially corporate gaslighting.

She's doing the same. And it's a massive dick move.

If this confrontation goes ahead, can see it going like this:

1: CZ plays innocent, tries to backtrack, minimise.
2: OP presents 'evidence'.
3: CZ breaks down and sobs dramatically. Blames mh issues/hormones/some other bollocks
4: OP relents, continues to allow freeloading
5: MN explodes

Her text messages sound as if she was reading yours to an audience, and being egged on to say sarcastic, cutting comments for a laugh at your expense. "Ask her if it was a ghost, lol". "Says we've been friends for 20 years? Tell her it's only 17, lol". Mocking both you and your friendship.

The bottom line is - she has accused a member of your family of criminal damage. If she stays, there is the chance she will do so again. A missing £10? Blame the child. Lost earring? Blame the OP.

"This arrangement is not working out any more and I would like you to leave."
No room for negotiation, gaslighting or backtracking.