A womans assurance that she is using contraception.

[perkypink]

I'm not too sure how to title this.

A man and a woman enter into an adult consensual sexual relationship. The woman assures the man that she is using contraception (whether or not this is being used correctly is a different matter) and is happy to have sex without a condom (whether this is explicitly expressed or not). It is assumed when they have consensual sex and a condom is not used. A woman falls pregnant.

I don't understand why when the woman falls pregnant and the man wants to absolve his parental responsibility does the calls of 'was he using a condom' start. No - he wasn't using a condom because there was an assurance that contraception was being used and you were happy without using a condom.

When you are having that initial conversation about contraception and a woman assures a man she is using contraception and is happy without using a condom I feel the shouts blame on the man after when he doesn't want to be a father is sometimes unfair when he has acted on the word of the woman.

I am really interested to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter. Should there be better sex ed and should boys be told never to trust anybodys word on whether they are using contraception?

And BTW an amazing number of men get very angry very quickly when they realise you actually won’t be persuaded to have sex without a condom. I guarantee you there are men I have walked away from who have successfully scared other women into having sex without a condom. They were fully confident that I would agree after a bit of pleading and sweet talking. Instant anger as soon as the penny dropped. Calling me a slag, a tease, that I’d used them for a free meal/drink/date etc. Telling me how much I owed them for my drinks etc.

When so many men just bugger off leaving women with sole responsibility for an unplanned pregnancy it suggests a certain agenda to go rummaging around for some rare case in Canada of supposed 'entrapment'.

When 98% of sex crimes are committed by men it takes a strange and unsavoury mindset to dig up a rare case of female on male sexual assault (not rape under UK law) in an attempt to prove ... some sort of point?

It takes an even stranger and more unsavoury mindset to equate a woman not being 100% on top of her contraception, thus inconveniencing her male partner, with sex crimes such as rape.

I bet some on this thread believe women frequently 'cry rape' as well because you read it in some shitrag once and it chimed with your dodgy misogynist notions.

But I still struggle to blame him.

Oh come on!! He wanted a shag, he took the chance, he knew what was at risk, it backfired. He’s a fool, but not naive. You might be though.

@daaps You saucy thing you!

Paraphrasing here as didn't copy before moving pages, but saying you find it convenient that contraceptive failures only ever seems to happen to women who want a baby when the father didn't - that probably has something to do with the fact that if the woman really doesn't want the baby, she can terminate, which not too many people go around advertising. And if the father also wants a baby, how likely are they to tell everyone they meet that their child was an accident but it's okay because they're happy about it? It may seem to happen more where the father doesnt want to be a father but imo, that's because those women tend to be a lot more vocal about it.

If your first thought upon finding out you're expecting a baby is "well its their fault!", are you really mature enough to be having sex with anyone?

What young people should be taught as the core of effective sex education is that PIV is not compulsory and that other methods of sexual enjoyment exist which do not carry the risk of unplanned pregnancy, or as big a risk of STIs. Hands, mouths, bums,

Sorry, are you advocating we teach children to butt fuck. You realise that opens up a hold load of other issues and would not be particularly plesent for most girls.

Anal sex doesn't lead to pregnancy and can be enjoyable. There is absolutely nothing wrong with including it among other options when you are teaching proper sex ed (ie emphasising the importance of consent and communication).

There is a difference between using contraception and knowing misusing contraception i.e. I know several women who “forgot” the pill, realised and conveniently forgot to tell their sexual partner. That, in my view, is entrapment.

Many women have been told, either "off the record" by medical staff, or by friends, that if they just miss one and then say double up the next day that it'll be fine. So I don't think forgetting the pill (no need for the air quotes in most cases) necessarily equals entrapment.

It is also the case that women can use the pill 100 percent correctly and still fall pregnant. No method of contraception is an absolute guarantee against pregnancy. If a man isn't happy with the slight chance a woman might still fall pregnant, then he should of course be using a condom to maximize protection. If a woman does fall pregnant, unless she has actually consciously stopped and entrapped him, then no, of course a man can't blame her, it is just an accident that they both have to adult up and deal with.

I don't know why he didn't rush out to get latex free condoms, I can only imagine that he'd been in the moment at that point

Then he only has himself to blame as he chose a quick fuck over his own sexual health. If he certainly did not want a child or an STI then he had other options that didn't include PIV or he could have gone to sleep/gone home and waited until he had latex-free condoms.

BTW an amazing number of men get very angry very quickly when they realise you actually won’t be persuaded to have sex without a condom

This was a thing back when I was dating, pre-DH so late 90s/early 00s. The excuses of "I'm allergic", "I forgot to bring any with me" and "it feels better without" always followed by that all important "you're on the pill though, aren't you?". I used to say "no, I'm not" (even though I was) and would tell them no condom = no sex. Some of the reactions were ridiculous! Like babies throwing tantrums.

The greatest power a woman has is where she is responsible for contraception and 'accidently' falls pregnant.

Well I guess we should all just shut up about equal pay and career opportunities and representation in politics and participating in policy making and all that kind of stuff.

Lone motherhood with a resentful ex is where it's at! Who knew?

What young people should be taught as the core of effective sex education is that PIV is not compulsory and that other methods of sexual enjoyment exist which do not carry the risk of unplanned pregnancy, or as big a risk of STIs. Hands, mouths, bums,

WTAF

Well to be honest, if there's people out there that really, really do not want children, they could avoid intercourse. They could still be sexual in all the other ways but just avoid intercourse. I always find it strange when people have an unexpected pregnancy and they say they are very shocked. You had sex? So you knew there was a 0.5-3% chance. If people were more sensible overall, men and women, there wouldn't be any shocker pregnancies at all unless a woman gets raped. If the people that are open to having a child were having intercourse and the ones that aren't weren't (only doing foreplay, hands and oral, toys etc) then our problem with unwanted pregnancies would be solved almost. Intercourse isn't a human right or need. Who usually wants intercourse though? 🤔. Of course there would still be abortions and unwanted children because even if someone says they are open or will be ok with being pregnant or being a parent, they could get a few weeks down the line and change their mind, there could be serious medical problems with the mother or baby that leads to abortion or the woman could change her mind and become scared of being a parent when reality kicks in, the same with the father. That aside, abortion rates would probably go right down and there would be a lot less unwanted children in the world.

Why are women solely held responsible for this to some people? If my partner and I decide to only use condoms and I end up pregnant anyway can I blame him? We are both responsible for deciding together and protecting ourselves. Nothing is 100%.

If men stopped whining on about it's the woman's responsibility and actually took responsibility for themselves you wouldn't need to post all that b.s. op.

Don't pour the bisquik if you don't want pancakes.

All people in a relationship that isn't long term should take responsibility for themselves plus protect from std's. I've been asked several times "do I need to use a condom" before we even got to the meeting up bit, yes of course is my reply! Men should take responsibility

And BTW an amazing number of men get very angry very quickly when they realise you actually won’t be persuaded to have sex without a condom. I guarantee you there are men I have walked away from who have successfully scared other women into having sex without a condom. They were fully confident that I would agree after a bit of pleading and sweet talking. Instant anger as soon as the penny dropped. Calling me a slag, a tease, that I’d used them for a free meal/drink/date etc. Telling me how much I owed them for my drinks etc.

Oh yes I'd forgotten about this. Also, 'I can't come in a condom and if I don't come I'll be in physical agony for days!' - from men with perfectly functional hands.

After I had my last child we have vowed no more piv sex with a condom and no more hormonal contraception (not 100% effective - tired parents make human errors), and our 100% perfect strike right at fertilisation, and a scary moment when a condom failed, drilled it home to us.

Snip. Snip. Snip.

Any man who is adamant he doesn’t want kids, or has enough kids already, who would be so angry and put out at fathering and being responsible for a child, really should know what to do. Sure their balls may hurt for a week, and in some rare cases there are complications. But giving birth is not risk free either and both things need to be considered if you really, really don’t/do want a baby.

@VaggieMight of course, and if they are lying that is terrible. But in the majority of cases it will actually be an accident - you can't blame any chance pregnancy on the woman just because a small minority are dishonest.

Men won't campaign for male contraception. Why would they bother, most of them don't want to use what's already available, condoms. They will just keep on having unprotected sex and then blaming the woman for getting pregnant.

As my Grandmother always used to say, "If you play with fire you have to accept that you may get burnt"

@leomama81

Given I was referencing my own anecdotal evidence, I can assure you that the friends I am referring to did not receive the advice you have suggested and knew they were at risk of pregnancy. Knowledge they failed to share with their partners who became parents against their will, having expressed they weren’t ready for children.

It’s only 3 friends but that’s quite a high proportion of people I know well enough to confide in me about that topic.

No woman is going to admit to doing this so it will always be explained as an accident.

Could you not turn that on it’s head and it sound like you we’re discussing non consensual sex?

I also highly doubt that Drs are giving false information re the use of the pill.

I have never been told that and don’t know anyone who has.