A womans assurance that she is using contraception.

[perkypink]

I'm not too sure how to title this.

A man and a woman enter into an adult consensual sexual relationship. The woman assures the man that she is using contraception (whether or not this is being used correctly is a different matter) and is happy to have sex without a condom (whether this is explicitly expressed or not). It is assumed when they have consensual sex and a condom is not used. A woman falls pregnant.

I don't understand why when the woman falls pregnant and the man wants to absolve his parental responsibility does the calls of 'was he using a condom' start. No - he wasn't using a condom because there was an assurance that contraception was being used and you were happy without using a condom.

When you are having that initial conversation about contraception and a woman assures a man she is using contraception and is happy without using a condom I feel the shouts blame on the man after when he doesn't want to be a father is sometimes unfair when he has acted on the word of the woman.

I am really interested to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter. Should there be better sex ed and should boys be told never to trust anybodys word on whether they are using contraception?

If there was a male pill would I trust it 100% if a pregnancy would be a disaster? Absolutely not - I would ensure the man wore a condom too.

Absolutely not I would still take the female version too!

Absolutely not I would still take the female version too!

I’m on the pill. I would still always use a condom.

If we are taking about one night stands, or casual flings/new relationships then I think the man would be unwise to take the woman’s word for it that she is on the pill. Therefore if he doesn’t use a condom and she gets pregnant, he has to accept responsibility for being naive and frankly, an idiot. However if the woman has lied about being on contraception then she is a terrible person. I’d be sympathetic to the man but only in a ‘You’ve been silly and now you’ve got to accept the consequences’ kind of way, I certainly wouldn’t think he was a victim. Whereas I would judge her massively for being deceitful.

If a couple are in a long term committed relationship then it’s a different story. In my marraige, I take 100% responsibility for contraception (I have the implant). And he 100% trusts me not to stop using it without telling him. Does this make him as silly as the man in the first situation? No I don’t think so. We are married and he trusts me. I’d probably be quite hurt if he didn’t and insisted on condoms anyway. But if I were desperate for a baby and he wasn’t, it would be so easy for me to have it removed and he would never know until I fell pregnant. And unfortunately there are woman who have done similar, and I know a fair few actually. In fact I probably know more women who have gotten pregnant on purpose and claimed it was an accident than the other way round. Whilst in apparently loving, trusting relationships.

I think if you have that trust and you’ve decided together what contraception to use and the woman decides to go back on her word, it’s awful behaviour and the man is in no way at fault in this situation. Same as if a man poked holes in the condoms.

We are married and he trusts me

For me it isn’t about trust but about reliability.

When I was married there were times when it would have been a disaster to become pregnant so we doubled up during those months, not because there were any trust issues but because hormonal contraception isn’t guaranteed to prevent a pregnancy.

Ironically later on I became infertile anyway, but still use contraception because there’s always a risk.

I mean, people can draw parallels for themselves, but in the event of a situation whereby it hasn't been about contraception failure, it's been about misleading: isnt there a hint of victim blaming about it? You brought it on yourself, you could have taken precautions....

This.
A contraception failure is something a couple could deal with together but the deceit that comes with purposely stopping or tampering with contraception behind a trusting partner's back is something I can't comprehend.

Just a thought - surely in this day and age people realise that taking the pill doesn't prevent sti's?

I think the arguments above are fair, but they don't account for the small minority of women who want to get pregnant at any cost. I'm explicitly talking about women who have been discussed in this thread (those who have stopped taking the pill to fall pregnant on purpose without their partner knowing). Surely, if they want to fall pregnant enough then a condom won't stop them? If you're living together, it would be very easy to poke a few holes in the condom and open it for your partner.

So in that circumstance, who is at fault? The man because there's always a risk in sex? Or is it finally the fault of the woman who has mislead the man, again?

Sometimes, it is the woman's fault. You can't blame a man when he's being told lies.

So in that circumstance, who is at fault?

Both IMO.

Basically, if you don't want babies, you need to independently prevent them. If you choose to rely on someone else to prevent them, this better be someone you know and trust. It's sort of simple.

I mean, people can draw parallels for themselves, but in the event of a situation whereby it hasn't been about contraception failure, it's been about misleading: isnt there a hint of victim blaming about it? You brought it on yourself, you could have taken precautions....

This. If I tell my DH I’m taking the pill he should be able to trust me, it’s a calculated risk we’ve decided to take together.

Just like we have a joint account and I wouldn’t expect him to empty it without my knowledge.

According to MN:

Man removes condom = it’s terrible report to police.

Woman lies about being on contraception = mans fault for having sex, or at the very least they’re jointly at fault.

Sorry but there’s a difference between taking a calculated, informed decision than having the decision taken from you altogether.

If I take the pill there’s a 3% chance I’ll fall pregnant, DH and I accept that risk.

If I don’t take the pill it’s highly likely I’ll fall pregnant in the space of a year. If I don’t tell my DH he has not been able to make a fully informed decision. His decisions is flawed.

I don’t get what’s difficult.

In decision making of any kind, you should have the facts, assess them and make a decision on balance. If somebody lies you’re taking that out of their hands.

I don’t believe if this was reversed you’d get the same response on MN.

Yes my son will be taught, do not trust the word of a woman in relation to contraception. I know 2 women who missed their pill as their DH didn't want another but they did. Disgraceful but it happens

Always use a condom or no sex.
And not at all after a few drinks with a one night stand. The claims could be life destroying.

Yes my son will be taught, do not trust the word of a woman in relation to contraception.

Wonderful, I'm sure he'll have lots of very successful and strong relationships with the attitude that all woman are inherently deceitful.

Yes my son will be taught, do not trust the word of a woman in relation to contraception

I'm hopefully teaching ds2 that contraceptiion can fail and that if he doesnt want a baby he should a condom as well as whatever his partner may be using

You know...rather than making a whole sex out to be liars trying to trap him

Exactly roly

Setting the poor young man up to fail at relationships

Surely stds mean that condoms should be used until the relationship is monogamous and steady anyway

Beyond that though everyone should be aware of the dangers of not taking the pill properly. A sickness bug for example means condoms are necessary for 3-4 weeks after

Wonderful, I'm sure he'll have lots of very successful and strong relationships with the attitude that all woman are inherently deceitful.

He will be fine, in never said all women are decitful, I said not to trust women with respect to always taking contraception, but he why that get in the way of a good exaggeration.

Setting the poor young man up to fail at relationships

😂😂😂😂 I love this place, he will be fine and well balanced with how to treat a woman and look after himself.

Yes my son will be taught, do not trust the word of a woman in relation to contraception

Wouldn’t it be more sensible to impress on him to manage his own fertility? That deals with the vanishingly rare woman who misleads with regards to contraception but also with the far less rare possibility that hormonal contraception will fail.

I just checked with ds2 that i had posted correctly about his understanding of contraception

First thing he said was abstain....then condom

tigger

Not if his partner gets pregnant and the first thing out of his mouth is...my mum says all women lie about contraception

I did mention your post to ds2 and he said ‘well is she not exaggerating like you do’

Wouldn’t it be more sensible to impress on him to manage his own fertility

Yes, he will made to understand that condoms are his responsibility and he should wear them on all occasions, unless trying for a child.

Yanbu

If a man 100% doesn’t want to be a father he should ensure a backup/2nd contraceptive should be used, and the most easily available to him is a condom.

I doubt many men are genuinely surprised to hear that the scenario you have described happens. So it’s not about a lack of sex ed. Comes down to men risk taking and not taking a possibility of fatherhood seriously.

He will be fine, in never said all women are decitful (sic)

You've said that no woman can be trusted. Therefore you've specifically said that all women are deceitful. If he can't trust them WRT contraception, how can you expect him to trust them in regard to anything else? Women have poisoned their partners you know- maybe he shouldn't eat anything she's cooked either? Obviously he should never marry any of them, because they might cheat on him then take half of his stuff in the divorce...

Not if his partner gets pregnant and the first thing out of his mouth is...my mum says all women lie about contraception

Well that would be him completely exaggerating to the context of the discussion, he would know better than that.