A womans assurance that she is using contraception.

[perkypink]

I'm not too sure how to title this.

A man and a woman enter into an adult consensual sexual relationship. The woman assures the man that she is using contraception (whether or not this is being used correctly is a different matter) and is happy to have sex without a condom (whether this is explicitly expressed or not). It is assumed when they have consensual sex and a condom is not used. A woman falls pregnant.

I don't understand why when the woman falls pregnant and the man wants to absolve his parental responsibility does the calls of 'was he using a condom' start. No - he wasn't using a condom because there was an assurance that contraception was being used and you were happy without using a condom.

When you are having that initial conversation about contraception and a woman assures a man she is using contraception and is happy without using a condom I feel the shouts blame on the man after when he doesn't want to be a father is sometimes unfair when he has acted on the word of the woman.

I am really interested to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter. Should there be better sex ed and should boys be told never to trust anybodys word on whether they are using contraception?

Contraception is never 100%. There is always risk regardless. His buck stops when he chooses to not wear a condom or seek out other forms of male sterilisation and/or contraception. There are male contraception gels now you can source if you're savvy enough. There are treatments that put gel in the tubes to the testicles.

She didn't force him not to wear one.

And I actually never used to believe that women would lie and get themselves pregnant. I thought it was another way to criticise women.

Now I’m older I’ve known directly of quite a number of women who have totally lied to get pregnant! Shocking but true.

@BIWitch It's in the original post.

the perfect use rate for the contraceptive pill is 99.7%. But that is perfect use, one missed pill, one sickness bug , some that need taking in the same 3 hour window every day. These are all things that can easily happen. These take it down to 91%.

PER YEAR. Everyone forgets that. So a woman on the pill for ten years is fairly likely to become pregnant. Suit up boys because once the sperm leaves your possession it's not yours to control any more.

In the post you quoted the poster explicitly mentioned entrapment.

I quoted you! and no mention of entrapment in your comment.

I also roll my eyes a little at this 'contraception failure' argument. Funnily enough it always happens to women who were planning on another child but the father wasn't keen.

@Venger

I don’t consider it irresponsible to expect another adult is telling the truth when in a consensual sexual relationship.

@FunOnTheBeach20 mentioned entrapment on page 1 @IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory

@ MrsTerryPratchett

That’s not how statistics work. Each year there is a 0.3% chance of becoming pregnant. The risk doesn’t multiply with long term use.

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/09/14/sunday-review/unplanned-pregnancies.html

Have fun with the interactive graphs that show just how much contraception fails. Not because women are lying arseholes but because there is a healthy failure rate.

Honestly, I think it depends whether it's a ONS or a relationship. If it's a ONS/casual sex, I think if the man doesn't want children he should use a condom regardless. There is less trust there and it would be naive to trust someone you have a casual thing with which such an important matter.

However, if they're in a committed relationship I think that the partner who is relying on the other partner using contraception a) all the time, and b) properly, should be able to take them at their word. Whether that's a women trusting that the man using a condom each time and doesn't remove it, or a man trusting that the woman takes her pill every day at the same time. In relationships you should be able to trust your partner which something so important.

I'd actually be quite hurt if I was taking the pill properly and my partner put a condom on because he didn't trust me enough.

Because if there's a 1 in 5 chance of something happening in a year, it probably won't happen. If I do it each year, it will certainly happen in fifty years. Each year it is as likely as every other year, but over time the likelihood increases.

Echoing many others, if the man doesn’t want a baby then he should wear a condom

Certainly have advised ds2 to make sure he has a condom on...if his girlfriend/wife/short term relationship is on the pill then its win win

Both men and women are responsible for their own contraception. If I trust a partner to use a condom and it fails, then it's my responsibility to use emergency contraception if I don't want to fall pregnant. I know that could fail but it's my risk to take. A man could use a condom and the withdrawal method together if he wanted to be extra safe, or get the snip.

I do think a man tricking a woman (or another man) and not using a condom is much worse than a woman lying about contraception, as a condom is also used to protect a person from sexually transmitted infections, a woman can't take her own precautions in that case.

I remember a thread where the OP's DP had made it clear that he certainly didn't want any children and started using 2 forms of contraception and everybody agreed with her that he was disgraceful for "not trusting" her

Let's flip it around OP - if a man told a woman he was sterile so no need for a condom but turns out he was lying and she got pregnant, what would you expect her to do? Would you have the same sympathy for her as you do for the poor man who was surely just following his natural urges.

And as for advising teenage boys never to trust women! Christ, did it really not occur to you that it might be an idea to teach them to be responsible for their own sexual health?

Then again, if only one party in the relationship needs to look after contraception, why can't we just teach men about condoms and women wouldn't ever need to know about the pill

Whilst I’m sure NY times journalist are renown for their statistical analysis skills and so your link must be accurate, I still don’t believe that you can just multiply statistics in that manner.

They don't have the second chance that abortion provides to women, their mistakes don't come with a choice of consequences. Another one here who tries to ensure my DS is aware of this reality.
Sadly my life experience matches with Longlongsummer.

I think people often stop using barrier protection far too soon and blokes should expect to wrap it up. Cos fluid bonding with someone should be treated seriously.

mentioned entrapment on page 1

And again, I was quoting you!!!

Think about it @FunOnTheBeach20

If I flip a coin once, it's 50:50, correct? But I flip a coin ten times I will absolutely get a heads. Pretty much 100%. Each coin flip is 50:50 but all the coin tosses together aren't.

You can get pregnant when taking the pill correctly. Because I knew this when I got pregnant with my eldest I faced up to reality and got on with it. My ex had the same information and was an arse. Arm yourself with the correct knowledge about contraception and act accordingly, if you're a man the most you can really do is use condoms or abstain. Men know this and should act accordingly is they don't want children. Biology makes children pretty inevitably for a lot of people who just think a bit of risk doesn't count; if you're at risk of unwanted fatherhood you need to protect yourself.

All contraception has a failure rate. If you have sex you risk becoming a parent. Simple as that

This ^^

I also roll my eyes a little at this 'contraception failure' argument. Funnily enough it always happens to women who were planning on another child but the father wasn't keen

This is rather an ignorant, nasty comment, isn't it?

Some people lie. That's just a fact. Everybody knows that. So if a man is going to have sex with a woman on the basis that she is using hormonal contraception, then he must take on board the risks that 1. the contraception may fail 2. the contraception may be taken incorrectly 3. the women may not be truthful about whether she has taken it correctly or indeed at all. If a man wants to ensure that he doesn't impregnate a woman then he needs to not ejaculate inside any vaginas. It's SO simple. If he is happy to take on a degree of risk that he can have some control over then he needs to use a condom (i.e. he can research the failure rate of condoms, ensure he puts it on correctly and accept that level of risk).

Every individual in a consensual encounter is responsible for their own fertility and sexual health. If you decide to waive your responsibility then you run all the risks mentioned in my first paragraph.

If we are going to talk about "entrapment" of men in these circumstances, can we also talk about the countless women who find themselves pregnant or with babies that were very much planned as part of a committed relationship or marriage only for the father to fuck off in a puff of smoke? Or it turns out he's actually been banging another woman whilst trying for a baby with his wife? Surely he has entrapped his partner?? She has been tricked into starting a family under false pretences and is now left with all the physical labour, all the emotional toil and all the financial hardship. No? Just the poor menz we're worried about then with their obvious inability not to ejaculate in the direction of someone’s ovaries...

Don't have sex if you're unwilling to risk pregnancy and/or STDs. Goes for everyone.

Once you have a penis in a vagina there is a risk of pregnancy and STDs. Pull and pray doesn't count as contraception either.