Brexit postponed

[MarianaMoatedGrange]

AIBU to worry that the (almost certain) delay in Brexit will give rise to civil unrest?

Even if the deal is voted through , the UK wont actually leave for another 2-3 years in all likelihood. So those wanting Brexit done, are either wanting a no deal Brexit or are not aware of the process of leaving ?

It sounds remarkably like blackmail. Gives us what we want (except we dont know what it is) or we'll beat you up.

I was at the March yesterday a very small group of leaver turned out. Less than 10 and quickly went down to about 5. They were drunk by 1 pm. Angry and spoiling for a fight. They reminded me of people that came into the pub I worked every friday night looking for a fight. They are the professionally angry. They are angry mostly at themselves but direct at everyone else. Brexit wont stop them being angry. They'll just become more angry when reality hits.

The march yesterday was calm peaceful with people working towards a common aim. Where are the leavers marches with 1 million on them?

I am an EU immigrant and since March I've been saying that even though I don't want Brexit, I actually do want it to happen now, because angry far right scares me quite more than angry left tbh. 3 years of getting worked up... Not going to end well if it keeps delaying or they stop it... It will blow up.

Quite the opposite. The delay is also delaying violence - because paramilitary Loyalists in NI are very unhappy with the purported new Withdrawal Agreement.

The leaver anger seems to come from a few people outside parliament, social media bots, a handful of mumsnet posters, 10 second vox pops and a few newspaper owners. Riots my foot.

safety history tells us that appeasing the angry far right never ends well. That is not the type of country I want to live in.

Is no one concerned about the frustrating of democracy that is going on?

Whether you are on the side of leave or remain do you not care about democracy?

At the next election, if the majority vote conservative can we decide that those voters didn't know what they were voting for, were too ignorant to understand it all and so, as we know best we'll ignore the result and install A N Other party as government instead?

I’m strongly in favour of remaining in the EU and I also have no doubt that we are heading for a majority Boris Johnson government (possibly a big majority). We have a proud tradition of doffing our caps to the wealthy in the UK and scoffing at ‘liberals’ so it is hardly surprising.

The UK is a representative democracy, yesterday was parliamentary sovereignty in action.

Lesson for the future don't hold referendums with no plan. Leavers can't even agree on brexit.

@Theworldisfullofgs I agree. But that doesn't stop me worrying about what will happen after 3 years of it bubbling.

@TequilaPilates people would worry about democracy if it wasn't a case of significant number of voters voting certain way after being presented with number of lies. Big lies

And the referendum was only advisory. They absolutely didn't have to start the leaving process

We were never poised to leave on 31 Oct.

Boris Johnson only had a transition deal. Properly leaving would come later.

frustrating of democracy

I guess my take on that is that politicians promise all the time things they can't deliver. The Tories have spent 3.5 (very long) yrs trying to deliver. Democracy is satisfied by process not the specific outcome.

Many voted Leave to "Give the Establishment a Kicking". They seem to get the result they wanted.

What do people think is actually going to happen if we do leave on the 31st, deal or no deal?

Because it seems to me a lot of people think that’s it. And truly not understanding that when we leave that is the very top of the iceberg and we have years of Brexit crap to come. It’s going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better.

@SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated , it's nice Article 50 was triggered I'm afraid the argument about advisory referendum lost its extremely weighty power.
I don't see major kicking off- we would have seen it by now.

Is no one concerned about the frustrating of democracy that is going on?

I am very concerned about the frustration of democracy that the BJ government has attempted - trying to flout parliamentary sovereignty at every turn.

As the referendum was implemented in law as a non-binding advisory vote I have no concerns there about flouting of democracy. If the government decides it is politically expedient to follow through on the narrow result of the referendum, they need to follow the democratic processes of governance in the UK and find a way to do it that can be votes through Parliament by our democratically elected representatives.

Let them riot then lock them up

Is no one concerned about the frustrating of democracy that is going on?

No. It’s been healthy.

We live in a parliamentary democracy for a start.

Second of all, the government has been trying to sort out the best terms for leaving the EU. However because there’s not one version of leave, it’s got nowhere.

Leaving doesnt mean just disappearing on WTO terms. We aren’t North Korea. It makes economic sense to have a trade deal and even more sense to sort it before we exit the EU to provide a smooth transfer.

If we leave with no deal, this crap will keep going. And going.

Boris knows this. That’s why he’s rushing through no deal so he can get a win in a general election and buy more time.

@TequilaPilates more than anything, I’m so sick of the ‘but what about DEMOCRACY’ - you must know this is a bullshit argument by now, it’s just not possible that three years later you think sticking to the result of an illegal, advisory referendum based on lies, and sticking to it even though you KNOW Britain will be much worse off, is ‘democracy’.

Or maybe you really do think that. Please tell me what you think democracy means in relation to Brexit.

do you not care about democracy?

@TequilaPilates why yes, yes I do. Which is one reason I believe a referendum result based on lies must be challenged by a referendum based on truth. I'm pretty sure if we were told how many jobs we stand to lose post Brexshit the result would be different, and there should also be criminal charges against any individual/organisation that tries the bullshit that swung the 2016 .

Civil unrest happens if people can be arsed to actually leave their homes to do it. If people are so bored of Brexit, I just don't see them getting their coats and heading down to the market square for a spot of rioting

Social media allows people to be all civil unresty from the comfort of their own homes, why go out in the cold and wet and risk arrest ?

It’s just not possible that three years later you think sticking to the result of an illegal, advisory referendum based on lies, and sticking to it even though you KNOW Britain will be much worse off, is ‘democracy’.

^ this.

*Yes. How will Brexit make people’s lives better?

It’s interesting that even the most prominent Leave spokesman have stopped talking about the sunlit uplands and have taken on the “just let’s get on with it”narrative.*

Absolutely agree with this. That very question has yet to be answered after three years. We still have to work with the EU regardless of the outcome and even if a deal is reached there are still years of this to be sorted. Why anyone thought this would be quick and easy after 40+ years of membership is beyond me. If people are so bored of hearing it, (because that’s how we should really judge such a possible life-changing thing 🙄) we might as well remain.

Too many to address individually.

Yes, I include BJs latest shenanigans as frustrating democracy.

And I know that we have a parliamentary democracy and that the referendum was advisory (but Cameron promised that whatever the result it would be implemented). I don't think what the MPs are doing now is acting as a parliamentary democracy. They don't seem to be acting with an aim in mind. What are they actually achieving? All they are doing is delaying this, not finding a solution to anything. The delaying and uncertainty is also damaging for the country and what other matters are being ignored while they are all playing silly buggers?

Democracy for me now would be to either hold a 2nd referendum or a GE.

I really doubt it. It’s not riot weather.