To think some posters will always say the school / teacher is not being unreasonable

[andineverwill]

It really does feel you can’t criticise schools / teachers on here.

Like most posts on Mumsnet, it’s not really an issue in real life. Everyone just gets on with their lives and doesn’t sit around pondering about teachers. Or a friend wanting to eat their garlic bread.

I'm so glad I've left the teaching profession and don't have to put up with this anymore. Sarcastic vindictive bastards indeed. Do you realise how unfair and hugely offensive that is to the vast majority of hardworking teachers who are trying to do their best for your children? On here, when a complaint is made about a teacher, nearly every teacher will suggest the parent communicates with the school. That's not being defensive, or accusing the child of lying or dismissing the problem. It's the sensible course of action.

I'd say it is a real issue.

I've seen horrendous abuse (mostly emotional) by teachers under the guise of "doing their job". Really, really nasty and cruel individuals who were equally resentful that they "ended up" as teachers and pleased they could use their power to make other people's lives miserable.

I had some great experiences with teachers and some shockers, bit like other aspects of life.
I think one of DC's teachers didn't really want to be a teacher but for some it's a real vocation. When the DC get that rapport and bond then the learning is great.

I'm not a teacher but have worked in education for many years and have known children that tell lies to get sympathy from parents and to try to get teachers and support staff into trouble. The kind of parents who automatically believe their children without ever thinking there might be another side to this. There are more and more of these parents every year.

Communicating with a school which maintains a status quo of emotional abuse of children is pointless.

It was only when I joined the last school I worked at that parents had someone they could actually speak to and be listened to. When I did listen, what I heard about how staff were treating students was absolutely horrendous. It ruined my last pregnancy and left me in therapy because I was so shocked that sort of thing went on. I mean really cruel abuse towards SEN students. Groups of staff mocking and humiliating them in front of students. Totally ignoring their raised hand for a whole lesson until they urinated on the floor. Fabricating the existence of support such as TA in lesson and SALT. Pretending that students that should have had access arrangements had them when they didnt.

Honestly, you have no idea. That school is still rated Outstanding according to OFSTED.

@ChilledBee so what did you do about it? Did you change things? Whistleblow? Reported it?

Actually what most people including teachers always advise is to always talk to teacher/get the other side of the story, then make a judgement call and if a complaint/further discussion is needed always do so in a calm,sensible,civilised manner and follow the complaints procedure. Which is sensible advice and more likely to get a (beneficial)resolution

Bollocks. The pro-school/ teacher lobby that the op is referring to tend to respond to the threads by expressing disbelief and doubt about what the child has said, and referring to them as snowflakes or little darlings. Not what you've described.

This isn’t a thread criticising “a teacher”, though, OP. This is a thread inviting others to criticise teachers in general, under the disingenuous excuse that nobody is ever allowed to do so. What rubbish. This site is full of people who dislike teachers.

@andineverwill I disagree. As someone who has worked in a school for a long time I know that sometimes teachers make the wrong call the same as in any other profession. I have seen some really odd things about various schools on Mumsnet, the thread today about the poverty questionnaire is a prime example.

What I can never support is the "marching down there and raising hell" approach that some parents take. I would always advise a phone call or meeting to hear the facts with an open mind before deciding where you stand. Then, if you still disagree have that discussion and make a formal complaint if needed.

Your point about the retail worker comparison is nonsense as well.

Whenever anyone comes in to complain about poor retail service, there are comments upon comments about how under appreciated, stressful, low paid and demoralising retail work is, how the person has been on their feet all day etc.

Ha ha, seaweed

No, just a bit sick of people insisting that kids are lying scrotes.

hoxtonbabe

I’m not saying the science teacher doesn’t have it in for your son. It’s perfectly possible. However, do you have any theories about why the science teacher might dislike your son for no reason?

I’ve been told I “plain and simple” have it in for a particular student and I usually respond (internally) in one of two ways: a) I don’t have it in for him - he’s breaking the rules and these are the consequences or b) eh? Why would I dislike him/her for no apparent reason? Someone has the wrong end of the stick.

I do very occasionally dislike a child. It’s never, ever for no reason, and actually, it takes rather a lot for that to happen.

No, just a bit sick of people insisting that kids are lying scrotes.

It’s not that anyone is a scrote, OP, but it’s a fact that people do tell lies.

Of course they do. Sometimes children do.

What concerns me is the way it is assumed the child is lying.

I left to have my baby but yes, I did report and whistleblow but even the Government/OFSTED don't care what happens in schools as long as they seem to be getting better grades. So did various parents who I supported to whistleblow. Nothing came of it at all.

And of course, many teachers said that kids misunderstood individual incidents or the teahere were provoked by the student or their shitty work conditions thus it is understandable they snapped.

What concerns me is the way it is assumed the child is lying.

In what particular situation? I have seen lots of threads where it is suggested that it needs to be considered that the child might be lying. I have seen others where it is suggested that the child is probably lying, based on details in the thread. I’m not sure that amounts to “assuming”.

I'm fairly balanced I think to be fair - I'm usually on the side of "go into school and get their side of what's meant to have happened as wires can get crossed and wrong ends of sticks got" more than anything else.

Of course on MN I've been accused of being "that parent" for calling a teacher to account for continual ignorance of DD's SN provision which I had proof (and an admission - buried under an endless stream of excuses about why it wasn't happening... using the Christmas play as an excuse for things going on on March was impressive) - but I never did view it as all teachers being "bad" - it was just one who isn't so much bad, but coasting along doing the minimum she could in a bad year - and I did the very un-MN thing of taking it to the class teacher, then the SENCO and then the Head and got it resolved like a mature adult without ranting to the press or Ofsted or anything else.

One of my kids has a lot of form for lying (well it's more by missing out the bits that don't shower her in glory than active falsehoods generally) - I query things that are alleged to have happened with the school but the school know me now well enough to know I'm not asking in a confrontational way but in a "this seems off - can you let me know what's actually happened" way. I actually think that, bar the bad apple situation we had last year (which was all verified it was happening by the Head and SENCO both investigating), the teachers in my kids' school are bloody superb - and the SENCO is just beyond amazing.

I do dislike the confrontational attitude some of the MN more prolific teacher posters take though - it really does not help the situation at all.

People don't assume children are lying scrotes.

People do suggest that sometimes children get the wrong end of the stick, or may see a very one sided simplistic interpretation of something.

Nobody will ever know for sure unless they calmly and rationally ask the relevant staff member about it without ranting and raving.

My DC primary school has been in a state of chaos for 4ish years now. The staff turnover has been huge, including SLT. It's Ofsted rating has improved in that period. I bet the inspectors wouldn't send their DC there though!

I loved it when secondary kids got smart phones and started recording incidents. Very eye opening.

ChilledBee
I loved it when secondary kids got smart phones and started recording incidents.

Does that include the incidents of pupils baiting/bullying/terroring teachers, or just the ones that put the teachers in the wrong?

OP, I agree with you. Some people will defend teachers come hell or high water. It's like they can't possibly be wrong.

Both. They recorded everything at first. Even things that could get them arrested! It was eye opening for a variety of reasons.

I’d be happy to have CCTV in all classrooms.