Page 13 | To think some posters will always say the school / teacher is not being unreasonable

andineverwill · 2019-10-19T14:10:31+00:00

It really does feel you can’t criticise schools / teachers on here.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 20/10/2019 19:47

I'm curious if a good decision results in a 6 year old child bolting and being chased by 7 adults, what does a bad decision look like?

Your expectations are - I would argue - unrealistic. It is not always possible to control this sort of situation while still doing your legal duty and your job. When you know why the teacher did what she did, come back and tell us, and I will tell you whether I would have made a different call.

cardibach · 20/10/2019 19:47

There are a handful of posters who refuse to acknowledge that sometimes a teacher is wrong
No, @Allington, there are a number of posters who refuse to believe the teacher is always wrong.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/10/2019 19:52

Allington

Whatever the circumstances, you have encountered posters who will continue to blame you and your child. I wouldn't bother to engage.

The posters that are still discussing DobbinsVeil haven't suggested that the blame is with the child or DobbinsVeil.

Which proves the OP's point.

It really doesn't

There are a handful of posters who refuse to acknowledge that sometimes a teacher is wrong.

There are posters that are saying that she doesn't know what the teacher was told which is completely different.

DobbinsVeil · 20/10/2019 19:52

BoneyBackJackson

She could see he wasn't in Forest School clothes.
They aren't allowed to participate in school uniform.
She wasn't responsible for him that day as it's her scheduled combined NQT and PPA time, and the class is covered by a HLTA.

If she's being forced to try and force DS3 to FS under those circumstances, then that really is a huge issue. Is it for me to insert myself in though? If the Head and SENCo are conspiring to do this, am I in a position to stop it? What can I do?

I've not made any complaints, I just think the teacher made a bad decision, which is frustrating after we'd had a meeting the day before and felt quite positive.

But my thoughts are unacceptable.

Teachermaths · 20/10/2019 19:55

Was she actually taking him to FS or just walking past?

LolaSmiles · 20/10/2019 20:01

No, @Allington, there are a number of posters who refuse to believe the teacher is always wrong.
I agree.
Even suggesting "maybe you should have a sensible chat with the school in a reasonable way whilst being aware you may not have all the information" is enough to send some posters into a frothy tizz about how everyone is calling children liars, can't criticise teachers etc etc.

It always amuses me just how often the most logical and sensible advice manages to offend and anger those of a frothy disposition

DobbinsVeil · 20/10/2019 20:03

Do we know this? He decided that was what she was doing and ran, but I don’t see anywhere anything saying that is what happened. She could have been trying to get him outside for fresh air since he was missing FS. He just thought that was what was happening. You say it’s an area they only go to for FS, but is that because it is the ‘wold’ area of the grounds so best for a walk too?
We don’t know. Best to find out, I think.

100% was trying to take him to FS. I'm really not drawing a map, but that area is only used by the school for FS. The main playing area is immediately outside DS3's classroom, field and a playground.

Examining the note the SENCo gave me, which says the teacher took him for a walk to see what FS were doing, it was actually written by the more usual class TA. You'll have to take my word on the handwriting analysis though.

Teachermaths · 20/10/2019 20:07

OK so she took him to see what they were doing. Not to force him to stay there, not to take part, but just to see. Your ds might not have been able to understand that. But she didn't force him into forest school and he bolted.

Why don't you ask her?

noblegiraffe · 20/10/2019 20:07

Dobbin

You said that this was a target for your DS:

“By the end of KS1, DS3 will be able to take part in all aspects of school life, including visits to unfamiliar or previously feared places, without any adult support.

His sensory difficulties will not present during the school day and he will meet all academic expectations for his age”

A target that you have agreed?

In which case a quick walk out past Forest School (NOT taking part) would make sense?

WhiskeyLullaby · 20/10/2019 20:13

It always amuses me just how often the most logical and sensible advice manages to offend and anger those of a frothy disposition

I think in some cases it's anger and disappointment at the missed drama. Some people like to fire up others,stoke that fire, and then sit back and enjoy the drama/fallout. I've seen it many times on the school's parent chats. They're all raging and outraged and marching right in there with you "hun" .

I actually got in "trouble " for suggesting a measured approach,talking to the teacher first or offered an alternative view. Because I work in a (different) school I'm probably a spy for the head and don't get it anyways.

True, I don't get how little Jimmy drawing all over his school top with sharpies that the parents provided in his bag and now it won't come out is the school's/teacher's fault

DobbinsVeil · 20/10/2019 20:17

Noblegiraffe
Sorry, they are nonsense targets I was suggesting I make based on this thread (and in reference to seaweedandmarchingbands commenting on the hours I have spent here)

EHCP is at draft stage

LolaSmiles · 20/10/2019 20:17

I think in some cases it's anger and disappointment at the missed drama. Some people like to fire up others,stoke that fire, and then sit back and enjoy the drama/fallout. I've seen it many times on the school's parent chats. They're all raging and outraged and marching right in there with you "hun"
That's 100% the case on here too at times, but without the "love you hun".

Why have a calm chat with the teacher when you could rant on MN, gain the validation you seek from drama llamas with their own school vendettas and then rally the troops behind you for storming into school demanding a meeting or threatening Ofsted?

DobbinsVeil · 20/10/2019 20:21

Teachermaths

There's nothing to suggest she told DS3 it was just a walk to look. He says she tricked him.

I've not had an opportunity to speak to her, he was excluded the next day etc etc. It does feel bringing it up might be seen as me being? difficult etc because it's all about the fresh start since the reintegration meeting . My feeling is it won't go well to bring it up. But I can but try, not particularly easy at pick up time.

Downton57 · 20/10/2019 20:26

It doesn't make any sense that she was taking him to Forest School if uniform isn't allowed. It may be (and I'm only surmising, you'll need to ask her) that she noticed he was tidying the classroom (a lot of parents would strongly object to this 'activity') and thought a healthy walk in the fresh air would be good for your boy, and her well-intentioned, spur of the moment plan backfired because he thought he was being forced to take part in Forest School. I'm truly sorry the consequences were so dire, but I'm really unsure how she could have predicted he'd react as he did. But I don't know for sure because I haven't spoken to her about it.

Teachermaths · 20/10/2019 20:28

Examining the note the SENCo gave me, which says the teacher took him for a walk to see what FS were doing

I'd take "see what FS were doing" to mean just a look.

I can understand why your ds felt otherwise. I still maintain the teacher did nothing wrong.

StreetwiseHercules · 20/10/2019 20:32

“ because teachers don’t just scream at kids, do they?

Without the kid having done something? Umm no.”

They shouldn’t be doing it at all. Screaming at people in the workplace is unprofessional and should result in disciplinary action, especially when the screaming is directed at vulnerable people in your care.

Downton57 · 20/10/2019 20:37

It would also be madness. Your throat wouldn't last the week.

LolaSmiles · 20/10/2019 20:37

StreetwiseHercules
As ever it depends what people are calling screaming.

I don't yell or scream, I don't lose my temper and very rarely raise my voice.

On one occasion I did raise my voice entirely appropriately, but not a shout or a scream in sight. For weeks the students were being silly about whether I was going to scream again. It was all in good humour. They knew and I knew I hadn't screamed, but it would only take one drama llama to go home and tell a selective spin to home to get a MN "AIBU to think Mrs Lola was totally unprofessional for screaming in my child's face?"

I've had to give statements when students have falsely claimed staff have shouted in their faces when nothing of the sort had happened and the student was being rude and defiant to a member of staff who rightfully called them our on disgusting attitude.

I've known some staff who have screamed, but they are far and few between and nowhere close to the number of times I've heard claims of screaming/shouting in faces that weren't true.

Downton57 · 20/10/2019 20:41

I screamed in class once, and was very ashamed, but it WAS a massive spider.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/10/2019 21:19

DobbinsVeil

I don't think that your thoughts are "unacceptable".

I think that they are sensible given the situation that you are in.

I (and others) are just putting our thoughts forwards as a possibility as what could have happened.

I honestly think that in many of these situations there is no one right answer, there are so many shades of grey that it is almost impossible to get it entirely right.

Even if the teacher in your situation had left the child in the room and not (for whatever reason) taken them out, its only a short term solution.

What happens when the HT isn't taking the class or the TA is away?

StreetwiseHercules · 20/10/2019 21:25

When I was at school, just over 20 years ago, screaming was the absolute norm among teachers. At primary school too. One teacher in particular at primary school was clearly mentally ill, and all the other teachers turned a blind eye.

What I witnessed regularly would be gross misconduct in any workplace. So it’s not difficult to believe that some teachers do still behave this way.

DobbinsVeil · 20/10/2019 21:44

DS3 loves having jobs to do. It was something else discussed at the meeting. He's always hopeful for a Dojo point!

Even if the teacher in your situation had left the child in the room and not (for whatever reason) taken them out, its only a short term solution.

What happens when the HT isn't taking the class or the TA is away?

BoneyBackJefferson

I'm sorry, I'm not really following this. The HT doesn't cover the class, there's 2 HLTAs and it varies which one. FS is always on the same day.

If there's no TA available, I'd probably take him home I suppose. That was the situation last school year.

He also doesn't go to assembly or PE. I pick him up for lunch 2-4 times a week as he won't eat a packed lunch anymore but also won't eat most of the school dinners.

He spends a lot of time outside of class, he will usually do the work 1:1 in the SEN room.

He doesn't want to go on the school trip to the pantomime, as he wants to stay in school and get lots of work done whilst it's quiet.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/10/2019 21:44

StreetwiseHercules

How far do you want to take anecdotes?

We all have different experiences.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/10/2019 21:51

DobbinsVeil

Sorry, I thought that you had said that the head had taken the class.

It was the head that OK'd the request to stay in the room and the HLTA that allowed him to stay in the room with a TA.

I'm now even more convinced about why/how the teacher could get this wrong is that the communication between the members of staff is poor.

DobbinsVeil · 20/10/2019 21:51

DS1 and DS2 had a very shouty teacher. He was v hot and cold with the pupils, prided himself on being funny, but had quite a nasty side too. He was really shouting at the class, not realising parents were outside (had been an event and we were allowed to get them early). The look on his face was quite something when someone finally got his attention.