To think that Scottish Independence is now inevitable and who can blame them, so good luck Scotland!

[GoodLuckWeNeedIt]

That’s it really. Unfortunately, I think this Brexit deal will probably go through tomorrow. But even if there was a referendum, people will probably vote for whatever deal going because everyone is demented with Brexit fatigue. And even if we did remain following another referendum, there would be so much backlash and unpleasantness from certain elements of the far right it doesn’t bear thinking about.

It’s extemely depressing. I’m in a Remain London Borough. Never really met a Brexiteer, but what can you do?

I can’t imagine how livid the Scottish people must feel though. Their referendum was fairly marginal, but I think if they’d seen this coming the Scottish independence vote would have won through.

Anyway, NS is definitely gearing up for another Scottish referendum and who could blame her? At least Scotland have the option of getting out of this nightmare. I’m sure they’ll be independent within a year or so and good for them. I wish them all the best.

AIBU to think the legacy of Brexit will be Scottish Independence and the end of the UK as we know it?

@Velveteenfruitbowl

Where does it go?

• Westminister

I thought Scotland had its own revenue regime?

• Scotland gives all of its income to Westminister, and some of it is returned to the Scottish Parliament. They also spend on our behalf (like the wasted trillions on Trident and the Iraq War) and then add it to our expenditure figures.

Where does it come from in the first place?

• Excise tax on whisky (which is attributed to England, and counted as English income as none of our ports have customs licences).

• Fishing, (although some of our seas are horsetraded for additional fishing rights in the English channel),

• Agriculture (which is subsidised by the EU but Westminister keep the subsidies),

• oil extraction (the rate of which is determined by the economic demands of the UK economy)

• renewable energy (that England relies on to keep the lights on since France shut its nuclear power stations last year)

I’m English, and a strong Remainer. If I lived in Scotland, I would definitely vote for independence + full EU membership. Why on earth would Scotland want to stay tied to the appalling shitshow being played out in London?

Cailleachian such a great answer. I am always so confused by people like Velveteen who post their opinions on threads and then later admit that they have no knowledge in the area!

Logically Brexit is going to be difficult and scary for the population of the UK. Scotland did not want this. This is the time to seperate because they are going to experience difficulty anyway!

Difficult times but make your own decisions OR Difficult times and take someone else's (the English) decisions?

@Themutts it’s was more confusion that thhe issue would even come up in the first place than an opinion. Generally, a short vague statement is an exclamation rather than an opinion. I was quite surprised that a country that appeared quite weak thought it could run itself successfully. Safe to say that most foreigners who aren’t familiar with that element of British politics would be similarly bemused.

@Cailleachian thank you, that was a very enlightening response. That make much more sense. I suppose the thinking is that under independence it can’t get worse at least given that income per capita is similar to the rest of the UK but quality of life is so much poorer, if you factor in an economic down turn due to increased administrative costs and an inexperienced government you’d still be in the same position. Given that the EU argument is no longer relevant I can see why people might expect a different answer this time.

@Velveteenfruitbowl Plenty of lawyers in Edinburgh too. Scotland has it’s own legal system and courts, take 1 year to convert from being qualified from Scottish to English law, 2 years from English to Scottish. Lots of dual qualified people in Edinburgh (and elsewhere in Scotland) so can practice in the whole country, as well as internationally.

And there are thousands of corporate law bods in the insurance, banking, pension investment etc companies in Edinburgh as well as people working in legal practices.

Also, most property sales in Scotland are sold via a law firm (many law firms are largely property companies), estate agents don’t have as much of a foothold. It’s changing a bit at the lower end of the market/in some locations due to internet estate agencies, but in Aberdeen and Edinburgh the legal profession still has the lion’s share of property sales (they do the marketing not just the paperwork). Some estate agents operate at the top end for sales for National/international buyers. But still common to check local online Solicitor’s property Centre rather than Rightmove.

@Velveteenfruitbowl

You made a statement that quality of life is so much worse in Scotland . Can I ask what you base this on.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/26/orkney-rated-britains-best-place-to-live-in-terms-of-quality-of-life

I'm Scottish but will have no say in the referendum because I'm currently living in England.

I did e-mail Nicola Sturgeon's office about this but did not receive a reply.

If there is a Yes vote in any further referendum I do wonder how Scottish people living in England will be treated bearing in mind all the accounts of the rise of racism against EU nationals following
the Brexit referendum.

@Strictlybakeoff the life expectancy is lower, that’s typically influenced by things like quality of healthcare and education etc. Obviously the nice bits of Edinburgh are perfectly pleasant. So are tge really remote bits (if I were retiring into the wild it would be up there toward the top on the list).

@MangoSalsa I assumed that the separate legal jurisdiction was holding it back a bit. English law tends to be very popular for international contracts, court of choice in cases where there are several options, fairly active in arbitration etc. It brings in a bit of money basically. Obviously the presence of big financial firms also gives extra work.

So there will be a referendum and if it says leave there will have to be negotiations on what will happen afterwards with the union they're leaving. Sounds familiar.

There'll be a lot of people saying remain, some who want to say yes to the deal, and some who would rather leave with no deal and pick up the peices afterwards. Sounds familiar.

I think all situations like this need to go:

1. Initial referendum for change.
2. Sort out exact details.
3. Confirmatory referendum.

And I think the question should be "Should Scotland remain in the UK?"

Because all those people who got "YES" tattoos first time round will be screwed!

@Velveteenfruitbowl Better to check the facts than make (patronising) assumptions

What would count as Scottish? Who gets to vote? Just people who live there? How long do you have to live there to vote? Surely there are loads of English, Irish, Welsh, Polish etc who have lived in Scotland a good many years. What about Scots living in England? Do they get to vote? What if you're mixed race ie Scottish/ English/Welsh/Irish mix or mixed with any other nationality?

I'm sick to death of this whole "indyref" crap that refuses to flush away, but if we have to endure it all again, the question has to have a Leave or Remain answer surely.

DNR it's nothing to do with your heritage, and all to do with where you live. I'm not Scottish by birth but voted in the last referendum. As will have the other nationalities you mention. Because it would affect me as I'm living here. If you are Scottish and living permanently in, say, London, how does it affect your daily life?
The vote should be for the residents of Scotland.

Velveteen, you said "the life expectancy is lower, that’s typically influenced by things like quality of healthcare and education etc. Obviously the nice bits of Edinburgh are perfectly pleasant."

The quality of healthcare in Scotland is second to none. Life expectancy is more related to issues around poverty. www.newstatesman.com/spotlight/2019/06/scotland-effect-why-life-expectancy-lower-north-border

I'd also point out that the legal system in Scotland is second to none. There are completely separate legal systems in the UK because it is a union of previously fully working, independent countries.

Hope that helps

@MangoSalsa law firms don’t tend to publish their billables. I just know from experience that in the England and Wales jurisdiction a lot of the clients are domiciled elsewhere.

It’s a delicious dream that Scotland and a united Ireland will thrive as independent members of the EU, stealing all the financial services and other professional work from their poorer English-speaking neighbour with its low-paid, casualised, under-educated and aging workforce.

But the more boring truth is that a recession is probably coming, and Ireland had to go through many years of acute economic hardship before starting to thrive.

@Nyx private healthcare and legal systems are always better but that aside the thing about English law isn’t necessarily the quality of the courts (which is quite frankly quite poor but more in the trigger happy approach they take to injunctions and the popularity of English law in multi jurisdictional contracts which often results in the use of English courts). I don’t for a second doubt that the Scottish nhs would be better than the English trusts which are just appalling. That said if the healthcare in Scotland is second to none (state funded at least) then the rates of poverty must be incredibly high for life expectancy to be lower than England where the health service is basically killing people which suggests there’s something very wrong with average quality of life. I don’t know much about the education system but given that universities are free I wouldn’t think it was access to education that is the problem. Although I wouldn’t know what it is. But there must be something wrong. Like I said, in Britain the health service is appalling and if we’re going to be very blunt people aren’t doing themselves any favours either with drinking and smoking. Life expectancy really should be higher if the quality of life is better and the healthcare is decent.

We lead the world with our judiciary. There is a serious problem with access to justice for ‘ordinary’ people but you only have to read a few Supreme Court judgments to appreciate that the quality of high level judicial decision making in the UK is exceptionally high.

The Scots are the people who live in Scotland, there are loads of different races of Scots.

Our numbers are diminishing, because we do not have the power to protect New Scots from the British government which instigates dawn raids and abducts our people. After Brexit, even more New Scots will be at risk, including many who dont even consider themselves that "new" any more.

I think another Scottish independence referendum is probably inevitable. As to the result, I'm sure lots of people might vote for independence because they want to stay in the EU. If I were Scottish, I'd be very tempted to do the same. On the other hand, I wonder if some people would be put off by the nightmare divorce process that Brexit clearly entails - we now know that it isn't easy to extricate yourself from a long-standing political and economic union.

Whatever they decide to do, I wish them well. The future for rUK doesn't look too bright at all right now.

Thanks op, I agree.

Smokiesings, how come Scottish MPs got to vote massive university fees in for English students then? You can bet it affects my life.

The tution fee bill came before the EVEL legislation, which meant that now only English MPs can vote on English matters.

SNP MPs abstained on the vote, as prior to EVEL they voluntarily chose not to vote on English only matters. Unionist parties instructed their Scottish MPs to vote in favour of the legislation.